Breguet 763 / 765

If allowed in the text file, uploading it to flightsim.com would also be helpful.

Your welcome. Since I don't upload to any site, maybe some one who does can. Its amazing what one stores in boxes, even found some Fs2K files, must remember to check them out. FsPlanet, even though lots of folks specifiy no uploads to this site, they manage to somehow end up there. I personally have not been there in well over 6 years, but remember it was a hassle to download anything from my end.

Frank

I too have a lot of add-ons coming from Avsim that are, at the moment, lost to the greater part of the flightsim community, but, like I believe a lot of other people here and elsewhere, at the thought of uploading another's work, even with his name, I feel mighty awkward. I know how to upload on Flightsim.com, as I have uploaded three times on it (a repaint, its fix and a simple scenery). This doesn't change the fact that it strikes me as wrong, the uploading of another's work without his/her consent.

Problem, and not only with the Breguet, is that most of the author(s) are unreachable...

What can we do? What SHOULD we do?

Unless the author limits the distribution of the plane in the text file, I see no reason why the *intact* zip file (minus the avsim.diz file) cannot be uploaded to another public and free server. If you look at flightsim.com right now, there are multiple scenery and aircraft files of mine and Mike Stevens that we never uploaded there. It is a very common practice (although relatively unremarked).

Hope this helps,

Here is a reply from FSAviator:

All of 'Barneybigards' several read_me files are explicit about his personal wishes (moral rights), but for reasons which I shall explain they are legally irrelevant.

********************
COPYRIGHT

These files cannot be circulated or posted on-line without the authorization of Barneybigard.
********************

However he provided a (defunct) link to entirely different freeware licence terms. He also provided his e-mail address;

barney.sp at free dot fr

The author of the panel and flight dynamics also supplied his e-mail address;

Christian Daboudet - cd707 at wanadoo dot fr

I have mangled them slightly to frustrate spambots which may farm this forum.

Both ISPs still seem to exist in France so I have no idea whether the e-mail addresses are still valid. People go on holiday and they get too busy with all sorts of stuff to deal with FS requests. Sometimes it is weeks before they answer. Some people have many mailboxes and do not check all of them regularly. If anybody cares about the wishes of the creator's of the work they will use both e-mail addresses and wait several weeks for a reply before acting on its content.

Legally 'Barneybigard invalidated his copyright statement above by stating;

***************************************************************************
This work is provided under Creative Commons license BY-NC-ND.
***************************************************************************

The explicit purpose of that licence is to allow redistribution of creative work accompanied by attribution. That licence is no longer promulgated on exactly the same page at creativecommons.org as it was in 2006, but it is easy enough to locate, and the English language version is 'hiding' here;

creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/fr/deed.en_CA

The relevant freeware licence says;

**********************
You are free:

to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work

Under the following conditions:

Attribution. You must give the original author credit.

Attribute this work:

What does "Attribute this work" mean? The page you came from contained embedded licensing metadata, including how the creator wishes to be attributed for re-use. You can use the HTML here to cite the work. Doing so will also include metadata on your page so that others can find the original work as well. Non-Commercial. You may not use this work for commercial purposes.

No Derivative Works. You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.

For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others the licence terms of this work. Any of these conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder. Nothing in this license impairs or restricts the author's moral rights.
**************************

By choosing and imposing the creativecommons.org BY-NC-ND licence above 'Barneybigard' invalidated his prior copyright declaration. Nothing in any of the original files cites Avsim.com as an authorised distributor, but Avsim.com were free to distribute the work subject to the terms applied by creativecommons.org above, and so is anybody else.

In most cases the 'copyright' messages people put in read me files have no validity because they immediately invalidate them by uploading to a commercial, (or creative non commercial), distributor who imposes entirely different terms to which the uploader assents in order to achieve (free) distribution. In this case 'Barneybigard' imposed the BY_NC_ND licence in perpetuity on *anyone* who subsequently chooses to distribute his work, perhaps after some clueless individual decides that they have the right to appoint a distributor for him, and cluelessly thinks they have authority to assent to that distributors different terms of distribution.

Legally it is the original author's chosen distribution licence terms that matter. The author's 'moral rights' have little legal consequence in most jurisdictions, and none at all at fsplanet.com. Those who have posted on this topic may, or may not, care about them more than fsplanet.com.

I wrote 'realistic' flight dynamics and handling notes for the BR761, BR763 and BR765 for my own use some time ago. My original intention was to share them, but as you can see there is a clear and continuing prohibition on circulation of derivative works, under BY_NC_ND so I am prohibited from sharing them since even 'realistic' FS9 flight dynamics logically nevertheless incorporate data specific to the MDLs in question which, whether by accident or design, do not wholly conform to the real data whose copyright holder is Breguet, not 'Barneybigard', nor creativecommons.org . Anyone can publish flight dynamics for any of those three aircraft based on the real world Breguet data, which are now in the public domain, but not with dimensions based on the two copyright MDLs in question.

The freeware licence under which the original files can be distributed unaltered was never difficult to discover and its terms are stated above. Any distributor who abides by them can host and distribute the original work. The legal obligations of third parties seeking to appoint a new distributor under the original licence are clear.

FSAviator.

The one thing that has always discouraged me from playing with this aircraft to any extent is its diabolical flight characteristics - and I don't believe these words are overstating the case. I don't fault the author for this because everybody has their areas of expertise and his is clearly in the building of the splendid model itself. But it is impossible to fly at realistic cruise speeds without the nose stuck in the air, it is more suited to flying at jet speeds.

Personally, I think it is preposterous to say the model's author has imposed restrictions that prevent better FDEs being uploaded. Has he any right to do so, even if he wanted to? Provided the FDEs have been developed independently, I see no problem. After all, the author's name is not Breguet - he has copied his model from the original aircraft, just as a set of FDEs would be. Are we saying he is prohibiting anybody else from modelling the aircraft in the future, for example for other versions of FS? I don't think that is what was intended.

John

Is there any alternate FDE's for this A/C?