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Post by bryan01 on Oct 26, 2014 6:04:44 GMT -5
Hello,
I'm looking for charts of old Amsterdam Schiphol (EHAM). Preferably late fifties but other dates are fine as well. Does anyone have them, or know where to get them?
Thank you in advance!
Bryan
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Post by FSMuseum on Oct 26, 2014 9:03:54 GMT -5
I believe you're looking for John, user jwh here on the forums. He's got charts for almost anywhere you can imagine
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Oct 26, 2014 12:00:28 GMT -5
I have some from 12/64, if John doesn't have any that are earlier.
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Post by Harry on Oct 26, 2014 14:26:52 GMT -5
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Post by Defender on Oct 28, 2014 9:33:17 GMT -5
Hi, I always enjoy any excuse for a good web search. Educational as always but no old Schiphol approach charts there I'm afraid. However, pages 2 and 3 of this article give some info, and runway 22 (previously 23) was probably still the only instrument runway throughout the 50's and possible after 06/24 opened as well. www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1948/1948%20-%202091.html?search=schipholThen this other site suggests that Spijkerboor was the main (only?) holding beacon by the 50's so you can probably ignore the reference to the 1948 holding beacon. www.hdekker.info/Nieuwe%20map/1954.htmScroll right down to the report (in English) on PH-DFO. There are other en route maps on line which show that by that time Spijkerboor already had a VOR, PHA 113.3, almost certainly in the same position as the current VOR (now SPY) and a NDB about half a mile west of that, PHA 359. Other sites suggest that the NDB was there from 1950 to 1988. So basically aircraft arrived and if necessary stacked over Spijkerboor then followed radar vectors to the runway 22 localiser. Trust this helps a little. Bill
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Oct 28, 2014 12:30:09 GMT -5
In November 1964 the navaids in the immediate area were:
VOR SPL 108.4 Schiphol ( at airport) (ident code changed to SPL in 1964 from ?) VOR SPY 113.3 Spijkerboor NDB SPY 381 Spijkerboor (co-localized) NDB YMU 279 Ymiuden NDB SN 332 Schiphol (LOM for runway 1) NDB OA 395 Schiphol (LOM for runway 23) NDB AS 364 Schiphol (LOM for runway 19)
On routes into Schiphol: NDB ENK 316.5 Enkhuizen NDB HAR 326 Harderwijk
The approaches were: ILS Rwy 23 SP 109.5, LMM S 369 NDB Rwy 23 OA 395, LMM S 369 ILS Rwy 19 SC 110.3, LOM AS 364 LOC Back Course Rwy 1 SC 110.3 PAR Radar Approach Rwys 1, 19, and 23
Hope this helps,
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Post by jwh on Oct 28, 2014 14:33:18 GMT -5
Hi Tom Any chance of your uploading them to your photobucket page?
John
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Oct 28, 2014 15:23:02 GMT -5
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Post by bryan01 on Oct 29, 2014 6:11:42 GMT -5
Gentlemen, Thank you very much! Very helpful and I appreciate your effort
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Post by Defender on Oct 29, 2014 8:00:52 GMT -5
Many thanks Tom. Very helpful for those of us in Europe.
Apart from changes to some of the beacon identifiers* and frequencies, your 1964/5 charts will not be much different from the mid-50's. I checked again and in Feb 1956 Flight Global reported that runway 01/19 had been extended to 8,340' and ILS equipped.
Bill
* For those interested in such things, the identifiers were probably changed around 1959. Following a 1958 accident in the UK caused by confusion over two similarly coded beacons, the UK previously used three letter codes all beginning Mxx, it was recommended that identifiers should be given identity codes that related more closely to the actual name. So Watford MYW became WAT etc. and presumably Germany changed from their Dxx, The Netherlands from Pxx at about the same time.
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Post by jazz5150 on Oct 29, 2014 9:03:38 GMT -5
Thank you very much Tom.
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Oct 29, 2014 11:02:44 GMT -5
No problem, glad to help.
Flight Global reports that by 1962 runway 1/19 was 9,563' long.
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Post by Defender on Oct 30, 2014 6:47:09 GMT -5
Flight Global reports that by 1962 runway 1/19 was 9,563' long. Thanks Tom. That's also the distance quoted in the notes in your 1964 airport layout charts. Not sure I understand why the entire 10,350' has these available distance restrictions. Yes, I see why landing on 19 is restricted but why both landing and take off 01? Flight Global also shows 9,563' in Dec 1961 and possibly they intentionally show only the available length. I'd guess that 01/19 was actually lengthened at the north end sometime during 1961. This morning I also found a report that 06/24 opened 1 June 1960. However it looks like the big jets etc mainly only used 24 for take off and continued to use 19 for landing. That doesn't fit well with AFCAD etc so I don't blame the Central Europe 1961 team for leaving it as under construction! Also odd that 01/19 and not 06/24 is still shown in the later Flight Global annual surveys but possibly because it had limited availablity? Don't imagine we'll ever know! Bill
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Post by Harry on Oct 30, 2014 8:02:58 GMT -5
Hi Bill, From the read me of the first edition of the classic EHAM scenery ( EHAM 1963 ) "Unfortunately we had to disable Runway 6/24, because the AI-planes did not work fine with it." As you know EHAM 1963 is included in the Central Europe 1961 scenery. I remember that the aircraft took off and landed in the wrong direction. And I know because I live three miles from that runway Cheers, Harry
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Post by Erik on Dec 18, 2014 19:21:42 GMT -5
Hi Tom and all, Many thanks from me as well for the charts. Does anyone have detailed information about the navaids' locations as they were in the sixties? Specifically co-ordinates for VOR SPL 108.4 and NDBs YMUIDEN 279 YMU and HARDERWIJK 326 HAR would be very welcome. I am aware SPL was moved at least once to its present location - 1989 I think - but it may have been a bit further northeast in the 60s than it was in the 80s. I'm trying to establish the locations based on the charts but I'm getting conflicting results, both by drawing in Google Earth and by calculation. The ultimate goal is obviously to add them to the scenery (to leave and return home safely ). TIA! Erik
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