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Post by aaronav8r on Jan 10, 2019 10:42:14 GMT -5
Dear all, I have caught the retro bug again recently and have been doing various updates for the 1973-1975 period for my own personal use, but realized recently that Australia had some potential here with myriad runway and terminal expansions owing to the early 1970s arrival of the 747. Using only Calclassic and other widely-available libraries, I'm hoping if there's interest these could be basic but workable additions to your retro worlds. YBBN - Rebuilt the default FS9 Brisbane into the Eagle Farm airport that closed to commercial traffic in 1988. If you are unfamiliar with the old Brisbane field, it had an unusual layout, limited jetliner/propliner parking, and makeshift terminals that amusingly repurposed WW2-era igloo structures. A temporary international terminal was added in 1975, so I threw in a rough representation of it. If anyone is interested, I can get help with improving the navaids and such to match the period and get things set up for proper release. YSSY - In Sydney, runway 16/34 was improved for 747 and assumed Concorde service, so I extended it out into the bay in its 1972 configuration. The first phase of the International terminal opened in 1970, so I attempted to represent it in a state of partial ongoing construction around 1973-75. Again, if anyone feels this is useful, I will add ramp details and clean things up for release. Good photos are a little harder to come by for YMML (opened 1970) and YPPH, but I might be interested in those as well as Australia is always a great sim location.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 7:29:28 GMT -5
Aaron - great project hope it goes through to completion, know how difficult these sceneries are to work on. I think this would be a great addition to the sim world and would lift Sydney and Brisbane immeasurably. I have not found a sim version of Eagle Farm so this is great. Eagle Farm was in use for a long time before they built the new Brisbane Airport.
Not sure what help you would like re resources or information. I collected as many photographs of Eagle Farm as I could find via the net sometime ago with the intention of one day doing it myself. Anyhow welcome to those I can upload them to a Google drop box if you like. I will see what I have for Sydney as well.
Navaids what do you need to know? Type, location, frequency etc. I am in OZ and still involved in the aviation industry, might be able to track this information down for you if that is what you need. This sort of information will be on paper not on the net because the airport was closed long ago. Knowing Air Services Australia, they would not have wasted the navaids and relocated and reused them at Brisbane international. There was an ILS, DME, VOR and NDB for eagle farm, pretty sure there would have been a localizer approach as well. They had two types of DME then in Australia, International and Domestic. They used a different frequency range. So the international ones were at the major aerodromes so the international operators could have DME as the domestic stuff required a different receiver and indicator for the aircraft. The frequences and equipment for Sydney has not changed with the exception of the NDB. At the time the Sydney NDB was actually located south of Bankstown and the reason for that was it was an old highpowered NDB that they had at all the capital cities, not crappy short range ones like today but an NDB you could pick up 400 nm from Sydney not 40. They took long distance over water navigation seriously then pre GPS and very few people had INS either so good VORs and NDB's were essential. So for example Fiji to Sydney, generally you went via Lord Howe or Norfolk islands because they had a navaid for an enroute fix but you could not do that as long as you met the hour and a half rule about time between positive fixes. People still carried navigators then internationally so they could do a sextant shot.
Let me know if any of this helps.
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Post by jwh on Jan 11, 2019 7:40:44 GMT -5
Wonderful news on the Brisbane scenery as Brisbane is my home town. If you need any extra photos or airport layouts that may be of help I have accumulated quite a collection. I'll go through them over the weekend and do an upload to my Flickr page.
John
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Post by jwh on Jan 12, 2019 1:18:11 GMT -5
Have uploaded a lot of pics and charts for Brisbane especially for the 1950s and 60s. A couple of the tables give the exact coordinates for the navaids which may be of help. This airport has been on my wishlist for a long time. Link to the Flickr album: www.flickr.com/photos/12530375@N08/albums/72157688663105533Hope the pics etc. are of some assistance. John
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Post by jwh on Jan 12, 2019 1:20:18 GMT -5
Also, any chance of doing an early 60s release without the 70s International Terminal?
John
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 2:31:47 GMT -5
Great JWH you probably have more than I do by the sounds of it. Look forward to this.
Aaaron - will you still be able to keep the wonderful terminal building that was the hub of the airport once but became part of the domestic complex and is still there today ?
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Post by aaronav8r on Jan 13, 2019 1:59:05 GMT -5
Also, any chance of doing an early 60s release without the 70s International Terminal? John I think that can be arranged - I did see a couple of photos in your archive with the earlier integrated terminal!
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Post by aaronav8r on Jan 13, 2019 1:59:53 GMT -5
Have uploaded a lot of pics and charts for Brisbane especially for the 1950s and 60s. A couple of the tables give the exact coordinates for the navaids which may be of help. This airport has been on my wishlist for a long time. Link to the Flickr album: www.flickr.com/photos/12530375@N08/albums/72157688663105533Hope the pics etc. are of some assistance. John Thanks John - I have actually been on your archive quite a bit over the last couple months doing touch ups in various places. It is a wonderful resource.
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Post by aaronav8r on Jan 13, 2019 2:03:03 GMT -5
Aaron - great project hope it goes through to completion, know how difficult these sceneries are to work on. I think this would be a great addition to the sim world and would lift Sydney and Brisbane immeasurably. I have not found a sim version of Eagle Farm so this is great. Eagle Farm was in use for a long time before they built the new Brisbane Airport. Not sure what help you would like re resources or information. I collected as many photographs of Eagle Farm as I could find via the net sometime ago with the intention of one day doing it myself. Anyhow welcome to those I can upload them to a Google drop box if you like. I will see what I have for Sydney as well. Navaids what do you need to know? Type, location, frequency etc. I am in OZ and still involved in the aviation industry, might be able to track this information down for you if that is what you need. This sort of information will be on paper not on the net because the airport was closed long ago. Knowing Air Services Australia, they would not have wasted the navaids and relocated and reused them at Brisbane international. There was an ILS, DME, VOR and NDB for eagle farm, pretty sure there would have been a localizer approach as well. They had two types of DME then in Australia, International and Domestic. They used a different frequency range. So the international ones were at the major aerodromes so the international operators could have DME as the domestic stuff required a different receiver and indicator for the aircraft. The frequences and equipment for Sydney has not changed with the exception of the NDB. At the time the Sydney NDB was actually located south of Bankstown and the reason for that was it was an old highpowered NDB that they had at all the capital cities, not crappy short range ones like today but an NDB you could pick up 400 nm from Sydney not 40. They took long distance over water navigation seriously then pre GPS and very few people had INS either so good VORs and NDB's were essential. So for example Fiji to Sydney, generally you went via Lord Howe or Norfolk islands because they had a navaid for an enroute fix but you could not do that as long as you met the hour and a half rule about time between positive fixes. People still carried navigators then internationally so they could do a sextant shot. Let me know if any of this helps. I'll get back to you on exactly what navaids are needed. My best source so far has been these: drive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwc3I4OEw1NjBOWEU/viewdrive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwNlo0REg1S3NJN1U/viewRegarding Sydney, in photos of the period the Int'l expansion was pretty rudimentary when it first opened, nothing like the jumble of buildings there since the early 1990s. Do ya'll think it would be better to not make use of the default buildings as shown above and see what can be done with library object buildings?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 4:01:08 GMT -5
Aaaron now think you have it pretty close judging by this photo, as you said it was fairly rudimentary compared to today:
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Post by aaronav8r on Jan 13, 2019 10:13:50 GMT -5
Perhaps so, but it is difficult to add the parking lots and fringe roads using the default terminal object because it occupies so much space...
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Post by aaronav8r on Apr 14, 2019 11:36:06 GMT -5
Just a little update - as I have started messing around with Sketchup, I am attempting a minor update for Sydney to add the 1970 International terminal and 1968 runway extension into the bay. I'm not very good with texturing, but the terminal was rather simplistic and not too hard to approximate.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 17:54:27 GMT -5
Aaronav8r - I was thinking about this project and wondering will this remove or exclude the older classic scenery for Sydney. I was thinking about the wonderful Cal Classic rendition of the old domestic/international area because the old terminal and the Qantas hangars etc on that side stayed for quite a while as they were after the built the first rendition of the international terminal over the western side of the airport. I can remember the changes and they way they progressed personally as a frequent traveller and then flyer in and out of there over the years.
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Post by aaronav8r on May 11, 2019 23:29:12 GMT -5
Hi Mike,
It simply adds on to the existing CalClassic SYD as you can see in the 1st screenshot. There are some changes to the coastline and landclass to allow for the runway extension, but that’s about it.
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