Realistic Engine Start Gauge

[mdeval]

Sill curious and never got a definitive answer as to why the start gauge works on some aircraft but not others.

Examples: L-1649 works fine but doesn't work on Jahn's L-49, L-749, or L-1049.

Works on Jahn's C-47 , the Maam DC-3, and the Uiver DC-2, but not on default DC-3 ( w/ alternate panel ).

Doesn't work on the Howard 500.

Thoughts/ideas ?

Mike

[Tom/CalClassic]

Do you mean the start using Ctrl-E? It's typically due to a custom animation of the prop rotation - my gauges do not expect that. I don't think that can be fixed.

[ddawson]

Jan 21, 2019 18:32:18 GMT -5 mdeval said:

Sill curious and never got a definitive answer as to why the start gauge works on some aircraft but not others.

Examples: L-1649 works fine but doesn't work on Jahn's L-49, L-749, or L-1049.

Works on Jahn's C-47 , the Maam DC-3, and the Uiver DC-2, but not on default DC-3 ( w/ alternate panel ).

Doesn't work on the Howard 500.

Thoughts/ideas ?

Mike

I may be able to sort this out... I've learned a little more about programming in the last 12 years.

[Tom/CalClassic]

Hi Doug,

Thanks, that would be a big help. If you need any testing, etc. just let me know.

[Defender]

It already works on all my Jahn Connie series and DC's. More likely the problem is your normalized_starter_torque= setting in the [piston engine] section of the aircraft.cfg. It has to be fast enough or the engine will not catch.

In the L1649A V4.0 the 3-4-2-1 Autostart is activated by default and the readme says, 

Optional - inactivating the Engine Autostart System:

The Engine Autostart System is active by default. Inactivating it is only recommended if loading the aircraft takes too much tim on a slow computer system. This will result in a slightly faster loading of the flight, but will cause engines to start in the FS default left to right order instead of 3-4-2-1.

To remove the Engine Autostart function, you will need to edit the aircraft.cfg and panel.cfg. To inactivate the Autostart, comment out the following gauges in the panel.cf [Vcockpit01] section:

//gauge45=CC_Engine_Control!Engine_Control, 8,8,5,5

//gauge46=CalClassic!ENGINE_AUTOSTART_L1649A, 5,5,11,11 // autostart system

//gauge47=CalClassic!AIRCRAFT_RELOAD, 10,10,11,11 // autostart system

Then open the aircraft.cfg file and activate the starter torque in the [piston_engine] section to read like this:

//normalized_starter_torque=0.075 // for autostart system

normalized_starter_torque=0.0.125 // use if autostart system is not used

But in the L1049G/H the AutoStart is only an option and to make it work you need to edit the aircraft.cfg as well as the panel.cfg. so the readme says,

f) To activate the alternative engine start section, open the aircraft.cfg file and scroll down to the [piston_engine] section. At the line "normalized_starter_torque=0.0185", comment out (//) the one reading "0.0185", activate the one reading "0.075" by removing the slashes and save. Then open the panel.cfg file in the panel folder, go down to [Vcockpit01] and at the end of the list of gauges activate the last three lines reading:

gauge48=CC_Engine_Control!Engine_Control, 8,8,5,5

gauge49=CalClassic!ENGINE_AUTOSTART_4, 5,5,11,11

gauge50=CalClassic!AIRCRAFT_RELOAD, 10,10,11,11

by removing the slashes in front of them.

Yes, confusing.

By the way I'm a great fan of Doug and Tom's version. Many thanks for giving us that option.

Bill  

[Defender]

I've just noticed a typo in the L1649A readme that affects the aircraft.cfg.

The line normalized_starter_torque=0.0.125 // use if autostart system is not used, 

should read,

The line normalized_starter_torque=0.0125 // use if autostart system is not used

Bill

[Tom/CalClassic]

Hi,

Yes, setting the normalized starter torque does work, thanks. The Starliner has it set to 0.075 which works, so I assume that or anything higher than that will work. I set the value in my planes as high as 0.300, since it won't affect the appearance of the startup.

Thanks,

[mdeval]

Tweaking the normalized_starter_torque did the trick for me, in the Connies. The Howard 500 and default DC-3 still elude me however. What happens is that when you initiate the start, the #2 prop starts to turn. After 7 or 8 slow revs,(normal) the engine will catch but the plane suddenly jumps in to the air at about a 45 degree up angle,making about a quick 90 degree left turn, then freezes in that position. Takes just a split second. Computer freezes as well and requires a restart.

What exactly does the starter torque do ?


Mike

[blockwood]

From the SDK

normalized_starter_torque

This value can be modified to increase/decrease the torque supplied by the starter to get the prop turning. Increase this value for a greater torque effect, decrease it for a lower torque setting.

[mdeval]

But how does this affect the simulation ?

[Tom/CalClassic]

When you start the engines the prop RPM increases faster as you raise the torque.

[Defender]

Mike,

Try a lower starter torque value. Too much will overcome the parking brake.

It's a matter of experimenting to find the lowest value that will allow a start of each version of autostart. Some aircraft are even released with a value in excess of what's really needed for the MS default autostart.

Bill

PS - Just had a look at the DC-3. I'm using an early version of Manfred Jahn's C-47 model in FS9 using the default DC-3 panel and aircraft cfg's but with Tom's engine 2 then 1 autostart added. The starter torque setting I use is only 0.10 and it works, despite the default 1 then 2 setting being 0.3.

[Defender]

Hi again Mike,

Don't waste too much time on this yet. I did some more testing and I was able to replicate the strange behaviour you get and the starter torque setting is not a solution.

I think I've narrowed it down to the aircraft.cfg settings, but it's going to be a bit of work to find exactly what it is. I've got two versions loaded and all I know so far is that the default DC-3 model, air file and panel (with realistic start added) work with one aircraft.cfg but not the other.

Are you in fact using an unmodified aircraft.cfg? A lot of folk use the Beaumont and Bitzer version.

Bill

[ddawson]

I sent this to Tom already, but I'll post the link here in case anyone else wants to test it.
It really still is a beta - it still has all the debugging code in place, so its a little bigger and slower than it will be when finished. You won't likely notice the loss of speed.
This version does actually trap and block the Ctrl-E key sequence, so FS never sees it. It won't block a game controller key or gauge code, so you will have to use the Ctrl-E sequence, at least for now.
I have tried it in the DC-2 and the L-749 and its seems to work with them.
The entry you will need in panel.cfg will be:

gauge57=dsd_radial_engine_start!engine_start, 2,2,10

The gauge is using FSUIPC to control engine and prop rpm, so your starter torque won't matter.

www.douglassdawson.ca/files/dsd_radial_engine_start.zip

If you have any questions, let me know.

Doug

[Defender]

I'll try that tomorrow thanks. Would be good to see Mike's problem resolved.

But what is it that seems to stop the existing gauge working only on the default DC-3? The existing realistic start gauges work correctly on the Jahn C-47 using an FS9 FDE substantially based on DC-3 default. And OK on all the Connies, DC-6/7's etc so no need to replace on these?

Bill