The Canarsie Approach

[connieguy]

Although the Canarsie approach to KJFK 13L and 13R is very well known and is mentioned on Tom's scenery page I have only recently become aware of it. I link below to an interesting article by Tony Vallillo which points out that Canarsie was a product of the needs of the jet era and did not exist prior to it. He does not give an exact date for its introduction, but on the basis of what he does say it seems unlikely to have been before 1961. I also link to discussion on the PPrune forum which shows that even today it is regarded as a significant challenge, at least by pilots doing it for the first time. I also found the statement that 13L is difficult to pick up from the surrounding scenery particularly striking because this is replicated in FS9, especially during the day when the night lighting, obviously, cannot be seen.

       Unauthentic as it may be, then, it seems not unreasonable to use Canarsie in the propliner period. On Flightsim there is a file by Rick Koch which is an adaptation for FS9 of a set of Canarsie approach lights made for FSX by Hartwig Rohrbeck, and I guess that this is the file to which Tom's scenery page refers. I would be happy to be told otherwise, because I have not been able to get it to work, whether putting it in the Add-On Scenery folder as advised or in the Cal Classic KJFK scenery folder. The lights do not seem to show and I have also had CTDs which ceased when it was removed. As a result I have created my own system by placing flashing blue lights in more or less the right positions with a scenery placement program. A trial landing has shown that this works. However, the classic scenery libraries are very extensive and it is not always easy finding what you want. The blue light comes from a file named bobslights but it could be that there is something else which would be better. Thoughts on any of this welcome.

The final two sets of lights lead in to 13L. Note - there are more lights than this. As they flash a screenshot will not show those which were off when it was taken.

      airfactsjournal.com/2016/07/visual-instrument-approach-this-both/

      www.pprune.org/tech-log/236721-kjfk-vor-gps-rwy-13l-r-canarsie-approach.html?highlight=canarsie+approach

[phlyer]

We didn't go into JFK all that many times during my 40 year flying career but I remember shooting this approach a few times.
Gets the ol' ticker going for sure! As I'm kind of a lazy sort, I much prefer my approaches to be straight in ILS's I guess.
Thanks for the memories!

Phil

[connieguy]

Many thanks Phil.

[phlyer]

Installed the lights by Rick Koch to the FS2004 default JFK scenery and flew the Canarsie approach using a Rick Piper Capital Airlines Viscount 700. Couldn't see the lights during the daytime but they were plainly visible at dusk and quite easy to follow in to 13L.
Fun WOW!

Phil

[Defender]

Out of curiosity I loaded that Flightsim Canarsie file and I can see a number of things that could cause problems. The only way I could get it to work was to create a Canarsie folder in Addon with Rick's file in a scenery folder with an empty texture folder. And all other Idlewild scenery disabled.

Problematic issues. It's set up as part of a replacement default Kennedy so you can't use any other addon scenery. And it has the same file name, AFX_KJFK, as Chris Helton uses in his main 58/62 airport versions. Also because Rick's remote "phantom" runways are at the Idlewild airport elevation, possibly addon mesh or even addon terrain might hide these lights. Not so sure of that.

I think like Ken I'd be happier just to add my own. The approach to R13 in the CalClassic Kai Tak has a suitable arrangement too.

Bill

[Tom/CalClassic]

Hi all,

I don't use the lights by Rich Koch, I instead use the lights by Douglas Rooks, which work well for me. These are the lights I specified in the readme file.

www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?searchid=78654121

Hope this helps,

[Defender]

Ah, that explains it and in fact I remember using that light set in the past. Works well but for some reason it's no longer in my Idlewild files.

That link doesn't seem to work Tom but it comes up under Douglas Rooks' name although as a FS2002 file. Try this one,

www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?searchid=78654576

I previously searched "FS2004 Canarsie" and of course got only the Rick Koch version.

Bill

[Tom/CalClassic]

Oddly enough my link works fine for me and yours comes up with no results. But however you find it, that's the one I use.

[Tom/CalClassic]

Hi,

Keep in mind that the current versions of IDL that is being offered are by Chris Helton, which probably do not include a reference to that file. The versions labeled (and linked) as "simple version" are my files.

[Defender]

Yes very odd. Hasn't changed.

BTW, looks like addon mesh is indeed hiding some lights as you get close in. I'm using SFGlobal.

Bill

[connieguy]

Thanks for sorting out the Koch file, Bill. I was using the read me by Chris Helton, which explains why I didn't get to the Rooks file, along with the fact that it was made for FS2002 and I searched Flightsim under FS2004. Having tried it in the CC KJFK scenery folder, it certainly works. John Hewson's Flickr album on KJFK has a chart from the late 1960s which shows the precise form and location of the lights then.

Ken

PS I too am having trouble opening links on this page.

[Tom/CalClassic]

Now both links give No Results.

Here is the info on the file:

FS2002 - FS2002 Scenery
FS2002 JFK / KJFK Scenery Add-on
[ Download | View ]

Name: canasie1.zip
Size: 242,608 Date: 04-20-2004 Downloads: 2,187

FS2002 JFK / KJFK Scenery Add-on, New York (NY). Lead in lights for parkway visual approach for Kennedy Int'l runways 13L / R. By Douglas Rooks.

[Erik]

Oh this is a trip down memory lane. The first time I arrived in the USA was via the Canarsie approach on a Royal Jordanian TriStar from Amsterdam. I was sitting on the right side. I remember right turn - right turn - old airfield (Floyd Bennett Field) - right turn - wings level - touchdown. Thanks Ken for bringing it up and the interesting links. Compare Tony Vallillo's explanation on Air Facts to some of the panicky comments on PPRuNe..!

As for the Flightsim.com links, I think I once understood a searchid there is temporary, and from my own experience it is personally as well (cookie related?). File IDs do appear to be fixed so this link might work for everyone: www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=75748. Searching this is additionally complicated by mr. Rooks' varying spelling of 'Canarsie' (also within the package) but the information given by you gentlemen makes it easy and even after more than 16 years it's a nice add-on. I was also pleased to see he included approach plates from the program "Final Approach" by Georges Lorsché, to which I also contributed some bits well over 20 years ago. As said, an enjoyable trip down memory lane!

Cheers,

Erik

[connieguy]

Good to hear from you, Erik. None of the links on this page, including yours, will open for me and I suspect that the board has blocked people from opening external links. I have now produced a file which as far as possible replicates the Canarsie lights as they are shown on a Jeppesen chart from 1967. It is possible to land in a visibility as low as 3 miles - I have not attempted less. I have tried to post screenshots but Imgur now want people to pay and the old system of uploading and linking seems to have been altered. The link I did manage to get does not work here, although that too could be something to do with this board,

Ken

[Tom/CalClassic]

Mike Stevens seems to be having no problem posting Imgur images in his mystery destination thread on this board so I suspect it might be something on your end?