From out of the past...

[birdguy]

This morning while I was assisting with the waterfowl count at the Bitter Lake NWR I saw a 'bird' I hadn't seen in a long, long while. An MD F-4 Phantom.

I know the Luftwaffe (GAF) training squadron at Holloman AFB near Alamagordo NM has one. They fly Tornados. But this morning their F-4 was making a low approach to the Roswell Airport as they sometimes do in the Tornados and overflew the refuge. What a sight and sound. I had forgotten how loud they are. And a thin stream of black exhaust trailing out of both engines. A brief step back in time!

Noel

[circleman]

a bad**s bird. havent seen one in flight for years, but even on the ground they give me a chill.

[Tom/CalClassic]

We have one suspended above our Aerospace museum - those things were huge.

[birdguy]

Not quite as huge as the Thud; the Republic F-105 Tom. If I had a ncikle for every bomb I loaded on them when I was with the 355th in Thailand I'd be a rich man.

Noel

[Tom/CalClassic]

True, the Thud was bigger but it was designed as a fighter bomber, complete with bomb bay (as I remember).

[garryrussell]

Apart from a couple in Museums.....I've never seen a Phantom

Garry

[birdguy]

You're right Tom. The F-105 was designed as a bomber to carry a nuclear weapon in it's internal bomb bay. During it's working life, however, the only thing carried in the bomb bay was a 390 gallon fuel tank.

During it's combat life it was the primary aircraft for bombing missions in North Vietnam before the B-52s enter the war. It usually carried 6 750 pound bombs on a centerline multiple ejection rack and a 450 gallon tank on each inboard wing pylon. For hard targets like the Paul Doumier bridge in Hanoi it would carry a 650 gallon fuel tank on the centerline and a 2,000 or 3,000 pound bomb on each inboard wng pylon. The outboard wing pylons usually carried an ECM pod on the right and two Sidewinder air to air missiles on the left.

These aircrafyt typically flew two missions a day against the north from Takhli AFB and Korat AFB in Thailand. Those were the F-105Ds.

The F-105G two-seaters were turned into Wild Weasel birds. They typically carried one AGM 45 Shrike missile on one of the inboard wing to take out SAM radar. The other inboard wing pylon carried a fuel tank or a 750 pound bomb depending on the mission.

These aircraft burned a lot of fuel. As soon as they reached cruising altitude they were refueled by KC-135 tankers. They were refueled once again over Laos just before crossing into North Vietnam. Then they were refueld once again over Laos for the return trip to Thailand.

Although primnarily a bomber F-105s recorded 30 MIG kills in 1966 and 1967 with Sidewinders and the M-61 30mm Gatling gun it carried.

It was quite a bird. It was so large I could not stand under the wing and touch the the bottom of it.

The vice wing commander when I was at Takhli was Col. James Broughton who wrote an excellent book about F-105 operations over the north titled 'Going Downtown.'

When two F-105 pilots were shot at by the Turkestan in Haiphong Harbor they truned back and strafed the ship. Broughton tried to cover up the incident because Haiphong was off limits as a target. Broughton had the gun camera film from the two aircraft destroyed. He was court martialed for the cover-up. The president of the court was Chuck Yeager and Broughton was given a slap on the wrist; found guilty of destroying govenment property and sentenced to pay 35 dollars for the cost of the film and an admontiion went into his service record.

There's everything you didnt want to know about the F-105 in Vietnam.

Noel

[birdguy]

Gary,

I believe the GAF used have two, but one crashed a few years ago near Carlsbad NM. A civilian organization, the Collings Instute, maintains an airwothy F-4D in Houston Texas as a 'living history' exhibit. Those, I believe, are the only two left flying in the United States.

Five countries that I know of still operated F04s; Germany, Greece, Iran, Japan, and Turkey.

Noel

[Tom/CalClassic]

Thanks for the Thud info.

[pilotgod]

Yes, the Collings Foundation has the F-4 in Houston, but it really flies only a few times a year doing Vietnam Memorial Flights generally in the Texas, Louisiana area. I saw it fly past me a couple of years ago when I was coming back from Ellington Field, but would love to see it up close. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they toured it this year, just took the Huey around. The schedule website for the F-4D is www.collingsfoundation.org/Houston/cf_sch-f4d2002.htm
Also, in the DFW area, the Cavanaugh Flight Museum at Addison (KADS) has a F-105 on static display. They are facing the same issues Collings did in getting the permission to make the aircraft flyable. Right now, Congress has issues letting private individuals fly non-demilled (flyable) combat jets. They make exceptions on a case per case basis and it really requires the group restoring the aircraft to have someone on the inside, so to speak. So, until then, the lovingly restored, but non-engined F-105 greets visitors to the museum sitting next to it's adversary of a Mig 17. If I had to chose between those two in combat, I'm taking the Thud...because I actually can get my 6'1" frame into it.

[birdguy]

Actually the Thus did pretty well in air to air combat. We lost 20 Thuds to Migs, 5 to the MIG-17 and 15 to the MIG-21, while Thuds brought down 30 MIGs. Of course whenever the Thuds went north they had F-4s flying MIGCAP for them.

The best known Phantom team was Robin Olds and Chappie James. Olds was the commander of the 8th TFW at Ubon AFB in Thailand and James was the vice wing commander. They often flew togther and the team became known as 'Blackman and Robin' as Chappie James was an African-American.

Thye both ended their military careers in Colorado Springs, CO. Olds became Commander of Cadets at the US Air Force Academy and James became the commander of NORAD.

Noel

[dutch11]

I hope this isn't too OT, but a couple of guys bought a lot of F-100s at an auction down in Arizona and brought them up here and have them at the local airport (KBZN, same place Obama is speaking today). I gather that they were owned by a contractor who was using them as target tugs down there for the Air Force. I think at least two of them are flyable. Every now and then, we get treated to seeing one of them flying around. I remember how shocked I was to look out my window when they arrived expecting to see some ANG F-16s and instead seeing F-100s landing. It's a real treat to drive by the airport and see them parked there as well as a T-33.

Mark

[birdguy]

Hey Mark,

How's the Bozeman explosion recovery going?

When I was a weather forecaster in the Colorado Air Guard I used to go to Bozeman a lot since my unit was attached to the 163rd ACR/SAB up there.

I tried to find out something about those F-100s but came up dry. Are you sure they aren't for the militias in Montana's 6 northwest counties

When I got back from Southeast Asia I got stationed in the airmunitions test squadron at Hill AFB Utah. I had the opportunity to fly in the back seat of our F-100F a number of times. Quite a ride!!

Noel

[dutch11]

I think the militias bought them to defend against the black helicopters. As for the explosion recovery, the last I looked, there was a big hole where there was once rubble, insurance companies slow everything down. I think there were six of them if my information is correct. I have an old Civil Air Patrol friend who owns a flying school there, maybe he knows more.

Mark

[bushpounder]

AH! The 105! Love it!! My dad built them at Republic. I remember seeing long lines of NEW shiney silver planes on the ramp. I remember them test flying them and hearing the sonic booms. The good old days! I still have the flight manual for it and the complete throttle assembly. She brought back many a pilot. Republic always built a tough bird.

Don