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Post by charlybravo on Jan 20, 2009 8:43:13 GMT -5
Hello,
first of all I like to say hello I am quite new here.
Then I have a question about this aircraft. Maybe I am doing something wrong? After takeoff (nearly MTOW) I have a hard time to gain speed and to climb. If I do not climb I gain speed but very slowly. If I climb (100 ft) then I can not speed up the aircraft. I am not an expert but the power of the Connie should work better than this right?
I also have found when I am flying after a long time for climbing that the aircraft is becoming faster when I use the speed brake. If I release the speed brake and retract the gear then the aircraft is becoming slower. This cant be correct !
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance CharlyBravo
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Jan 20, 2009 10:05:45 GMT -5
Hi,
Try this:
1. Load the default Cessna at Sea Tac flight (in the Other category). 2. Switch to the Starliner. 3. Take off.
Does it work OK now? If so, save a new default flight.
Hope this helps,
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Post by charlybravo on Jan 21, 2009 3:58:16 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for the fast answer. Unluckily it did not help. I forgot to mention that I use the FS 2004.
I started with the Cessna, put everything up including the engine and then changed to the Connie. Applied Take Off power and needed the whole runway to hear the V2 message. Then I pulled up to climb with max of 200 ft/min at 130 KIAS with Flaps 80. After climbing a while to gain altitude ( flaps had been released) about 4000 ft, I set the gear handle to neutral and pulled the Speed Brake. The same thing happened again. The Connie was speeding up. Waiting until I got 170 KIAS, I retracted the gear again and the speed dropped to 140 KIAS. The engine was still at take off power.
Something is not working correct, but I have not found out up to now. Anny suggestion about the problem is welcome.
Thanks in advance CharlyBravo
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Post by Defender on Jan 21, 2009 4:58:22 GMT -5
CB,
Sorry to hear your problems. I also use FS2004 but I don't get these effects.
Some questions.
1. Are you using the original Manfred Jahn version 2.10 or the more recent Tom Gibson version? 2. Do you get the same result using both the 2D and the VC panels? 3. When you set max power, what HP reading do you get on the status panel? 4. On the FE panel, is the mixture control at AUTO and have you pressed the "SM" icon? 5. Are cowl flaps at 30% or below? 6. Are you using enough elevator trim for take off? Try about +3.5 on Manfred's version, +1.5 on Tom's version. 7. On the speed brake issue, use it only between 185 kts (max for flaps) and 234 kts (max for speed brake). Does this make any difference?
Initial climb should be about 1,000 fpm but then keep it below 500 fpm until 170 kts.
I hope we can find a solution for you. I take it you have already tried a new download and installation? It might also be due to some other add-on that you have.
Best regards
Bill
Being such a complex aircraft
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Post by sunny9850 on Jan 22, 2009 0:03:48 GMT -5
Based on a recent personal snafu with my control assignments let's make this simple again. If you are not getting performance close to the numbers on the reference sheets I suggest trying this to see if once again somewhere a gremlin has activated spoilers where we don't want them.
This is only step one in the process of elimination ...not the final fix !!
Open your aircraft.cfg file and find the following section ( it's longer than what I pasted in here...)
[airplane_geometry] wing_area= 1850.000 wing_span= 150.000 wing_root_chord= 18.1 // M wing_dihedral= 7.500 wing_incidence= 2.0 // was 2.3 wing_twist= -1.000 oswald_efficiency_factor= 0.700 .... .... .... steering elevator_trim_limit= 19.0 //Beckert; was 20.5 spoiler_limit = 70.000 aileron_to_spoileron_gain = 0.000 spoiler_handle_available = 1 // HJN 0503 min_ailerons_for_spoilerons = 0.000 min_flaps_for_spoilerons = 0.000 spoilerons_available = 0 auto_spoiler_available=0 spoiler_extension_time=8.000000 positive_g_limit_flaps_up=4.068376 positive_g_limit_flaps_down=2.000000 negative_g_limit_flaps_up=-2.106838 negative_g_limit_flaps_down=-2.000000 aileron_area=11.300000
Change the bold section in your cfg to:
spoiler_limit = 0.001 // 70.000
And then test the Starliner again....if it performs better now in takeoff and climb the problem is definitely somewhere in a spoiler axis assignment.
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Post by charlybravo on Jan 23, 2009 4:08:30 GMT -5
Hi Bill, thanks for the questions you asked to help. The answers are 1. I am using Manfred Jahn Version 2.1 2. I have not tried it this deep but I jumped from 2D to VC panel and back to set the gear lever to neutral and back to gear up ( this is only possible in the VC). 3. HP reading ?. I have set MFP=59 and RMP = 29 4. I have left the mixer control to "rich" and did not press the "SM" icon. 5. Cowl flaps were closed in this test, to reduce the air resistance. 6. My used elevator trim was 4.5 to 5. Only then I could take of. 7. Something I could not try. Because I never reached this speed.
Thanks Sunny9850,
for your advice to change the value for the speed brakes and IT HELPED after changing the suggested value I was able for the first time to do a climb which was as expected ( 1000 ft at the initial and then reduced to 500 ft). The plane did even speed up while climbing. I did not have this experience before the speed brake value change. I do not know if it is a valuable information but this problem was also existing in the Manfred Jahn Version 2.0. Did I find a bug or is it my FS ? I am prepared to do more testing to find the actual reason.
Best regards CharlyBravo
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Post by sunny9850 on Jan 23, 2009 15:13:13 GMT -5
It's you ...I am afraid. Ok not you but your FS setup. Either in the FS internal axis assignments or if you use FSUIPC in it's axis assignments. Something triggers the spoiler deflection when it should not be. I actually had that myself recently when using a Starliner variant that I did not have a dedicated FSUIPC profile for. Somehow FSUIPC had a spoiler axis assigned in the default profile and while the problem was not as drastic as in your case it ruined my testflights for the performance data on the 2.1 that I was collecting for the documentation. I would go through both the FS assignments and clear any axis links to the spoilers. And then repeat the process in FSUIPC. I normally create a aircraft specific profile for those that I use frequently ( must have one for each airline variation ) In FSUIPC click through the different axis pages until you see the spoiler tabs and then click the reset button which wil render that assignment inactive (should say not processed) Then change your cfg file back to the original value and try again.
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Post by emfrat on Jan 23, 2009 15:19:26 GMT -5
Hi CB - Sunny9850 recently helped me with a problem which had nearly all the symptoms you describe. The cause was in my setup (always the first suspect, since thousands of people had the Starliner working OK). In my case, I had cancelled the assignment of a lever to a spoiler axis, but I had not cancelled the calibration of that axis. When I cleared that ( by resetting it, then not doing any calibration), the Starliner worked beautifully. Hope this helps MikeW EDIT: Thanks again, Stefan - I was typing while you were posting
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Post by charlybravo on Jan 27, 2009 10:28:55 GMT -5
Thanks to all trying to help me with my problem.
Hopefully tonight I will be able to give it a try and use your informations to clear the problem. I will update as soon this is done.
Thanks again Charlybravo
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Post by charlybravo on Feb 2, 2009 14:53:00 GMT -5
Hello,
I like to say THANK YOU to all who tried to help me. IT WORKED. The problem was related in the FSUIPC as sunny 9850 suggested. I cleared everything as advised and the problem is gone.
Thanks again for the valuable information to get rid of my problem.
CB
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Post by sunny9850 on Feb 6, 2009 14:58:23 GMT -5
Glad it worked CB....can't have malfunctioning Starliners out there Stefan
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