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Post by jsaus on May 5, 2020 18:20:36 GMT -5
Now that I have 1 flight under my belt in the L-1649A, I need to now fly across the Atlantic. Navigating via VOR from FRA to SHA was no problem, but how to navigate to Gander from Shannon is the tricky part. So any help appreciated how to do this (reasonably) accurately.
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Post by jsaus on May 6, 2020 13:40:21 GMT -5
Nobody knows. Me either. Doesn't matter. Iv'e departed Shannon for Gander in my L1649A.  First fix is easy using the Shannon VOR as reference. After that, point West and hope for the best!! See you all in 7 hours.  |
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Post by mdeval on May 6, 2020 14:08:13 GMT -5
Actually there is no ONE method. Several were used in the era of the L-1649. These include dead reckoning, VOR, NDB, ADF, celestial including sun fixes during the day and star sightings if possible at night. I'm gonna guess that on any given flight, pretty much all these methods were used.
TWA in the early days of the 707s began using Doppler navigation, then moved into Inertial, Loran, then GPS.
Lots of reading available on the net about all of these methods.
Mike
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Post by jsaus on May 6, 2020 14:19:29 GMT -5
Actually there is no ONE method. Several were used in the era of the L-1649. These include dead reckoning, VOR, NDB, ADF, celestial including sun fixes during the day and star sightings if possible at night. I'm gonna guess that on any given flight, pretty much all these methods were used. TWA in the early days of the 707s began using Doppler navigation, then moved into Inertial, Loran, then GPS. Lots of reading available on the net about all of these methods. Mike Thanks, Yeah I guess in the middle of the Atlantic, VOR/NDB/ADF wont help me. And ssing the freeware Sextant (installed in the aircraft) to give me a rough fix seems way beyond my abilities or understanding. Head West and 7 hours I should see land is all I have. At LRC, I should have plenty of fuel and hope I can pick up a VOR on the other side. Either way, gives me something to do during lockdown.  |
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on May 6, 2020 14:35:45 GMT -5
Most of the North Atlantic region had LORAN available in the Starliner era. We usually simulate that by peeking at the GPS every 20 minutes or so.
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Post by jsaus on May 6, 2020 14:38:44 GMT -5
I disabled my GPS to install the Sextant. Uh oh. haha. Guess I could check Lat/Long with Shift-z but still not sure of that's cheating or not.
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Post by jagdflieger on May 6, 2020 15:01:22 GMT -5
I use the Shift-Z option quite a bit over the water. I just figure that my on board notional navigator is keeping me posted.
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Post by jsaus on May 6, 2020 15:08:34 GMT -5
I use the Shift-Z option quite a bit over the water. I just figure that my on board notional navigator is keeping me posted. That's true. I guess I need to be reasonable. |
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on May 6, 2020 21:19:55 GMT -5
That's what it simulates. |
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Post by jsaus on May 6, 2020 22:13:39 GMT -5
OK, update. Well....I made it. 7:06 hrs later. I got to my first fix out of Shannon using a radial of the Shannon VOR. Once I was outside it's range, then I just flew a heading roughly west. But I figured this isn't going to be that accurate or realistic if I cant get rough updates on my position. Not knowing winds (not looking at the winds from Shift-Z). So I could'v ended up anywhere in 6-7 hours. So I thought for a moment then entered the waypoints I had in planned in Simbrief into Google Earth and connected all the way points. Then every hour or so I'd take the position from Shift-Z and enter that fix on Google Earth as well. Then connect each fix I'd take seeing where I was at. I did kinda zig zag quite a bit around my original route due to not being great at reading the drift (not looking at the winds on Shift-Z either for extra challenge). And once I was in range of the VOR's nearing land I could find Gander easily. I replaced my GPS with the Bubble Sextant so I couldn't access GPS for any kind of help. Nor did I Ctrl-S and look down where I was at. But I dont really know what I'm doing with the sextant so I couldnt use that either. But I did try. So, as mentioned above, I just assumed I could get a reasonable fix from the FS Lat/Long and once entered, which I regarded as my Navigator doing his job. Super enjoyable flight! The Starliner ran like a dream. And I managed to get the descent planning right, with careful reduction of MAP, and flew a nice VOR arc and using the NDB for reference into runway 12 for a smooth touchdown. I doubt I could every fly an aircraft with a FMC ever again. I love it! |
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on May 6, 2020 22:26:22 GMT -5
Ah, you’re hooked! |
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Post by mrcapitalism on May 7, 2020 14:55:55 GMT -5
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Post by jsaus on May 7, 2020 16:59:13 GMT -5
Oh yeah. read the manuals haha. Ooops. * sheepish emoji. |
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Post by jsaus on May 7, 2020 17:32:57 GMT -5
 Here's my G.E. track map. The yellow was just a basic route from Simbrief. I'm not sure what routes were flown in the 50's and 60's. I believe early on (40's/early 50's?) they went via Iceland / Greenland? Anyway, green is my actual after taking 'fixes' via FS Lat/Long. I went from using the Aircraft time to my own time hence the difference. Not too bad for an initial attempt I thought anyway. Next step is to figure out this Sextant thingy and use the ships I downloaded with the radio beacons to navigate. |
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Post by Erik on May 8, 2020 5:45:13 GMT -5
Nice goin'! You may want to have a look at these excellent resources: - Sextant navigation tutorial by AJ Crowley, titled FSX but applies equally to FS9: youtu.be/1Es9Qi8z4is (part 1 of 2) - Threads on this site by 'Connieguy' Ken on navigation, for instance his account of an Atlantic crossing here: calclassic.proboards.com/post/79315/thread Have fun, Erik |
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