Douglas DC-8 Documentary

[Wolfgang]

Hi,

here is one of the better documentaries out there:




Cheers
Wolfgang

[Bjoern]

Woah, nice! Thanks for the h/u!

[Dennis the menace]

I'm subscribed to his channel. He has many other great documentaries. A good one on the YAMC11 and A300. His train videos are also very good.

[Pacific SMX]

Thanks Wolfgang! Very interesting and very thorough. I was never aware of some of the design problems, especially with the wing. I did, during the day, fly on a couple of DC-8's, most notably a United DC-8 series 50 and a TIA DC-8-63. The flight on the -63 was a charter from LAX to Frankfurt and was interesting to say the least. The plane had to be close to MTOW and the take-off roll used almost all of the runway at LAX. Longest take-off roll I've ever experienced. It stopped in Bangor, Maine for refueling before crossing the Atlantic to Frankfurt. The flight arrived about 20 minutes before the airport opened, so we flew at a very low altitude and speed over Frankfurt until we could land. One heck of a way to take a city tour. We nicknamed it the "Flying Cigar Tube". You can imagine why...

Regards,
Phil

[Tom/CalClassic]

I liked to sit in the back of a stretch eight, look ahead down the aisle, and watch the fuselage flex as we passed through turbulence - somewhat disturbing but still fun.

[gwhess]

Flew on a Flying Tiger DC-8-63 on a military charter from Travis AFB to Vietnam, via Elemendorf and Yokota, in 1968. No empty seats.

Gary

[Bjoern]

Has the video been taken down?

[Wolfgang]

it seems so, unfortunately.

The uploader marked it as private, so we can't see it anymore.
Maybe some vid and/or photo copyrights were claimed.........

[dave mcqueen]

I worked DC-8s in the 70s - mostly United Airlines at Oakland Center. When a long string of Bay arrivals were descending to cross Cedar Ridge (MOD 245R 32 DME) - at 11,000 and we had to apply speed control to maintain separation all was fine if the type aircraft were B707s, B720s or CV880s because they could normally slow down and still make the crossing restriction.

But if a DC-8 was in the que invariably we would hear the angry captain tell us - "We cannot slow down and descend at the same time" which I already knew, yeah yeah yeah -- heard it a thousand times........ which resulted in vectoring the DC8 and usually all the other aircraft behind it to maintain spacing and keep approach control happy. On top of that once the DC-8 had slowed down its rate of descent did too - it was like a huge sailplane - requiring even more radar vectors. A real pain.

I hated DC-8s; never flown on one; never been on one. Most of the controllers felt the same way as I did about them. Thats my story and thats all I have to say about that!

[Wolfgang]

That's would I call an clear announcement
Thanks for the insight.

Cheers
Wolfgang

[biggiraffe]

The DC-8 is one of the aircraft I like to fly in FS2004 (along with 707, 727, L-1011, etc etc), and you really do have to plan ahead on descents since the aircraft does not have speed brakes. Just as said by Dave up above, the aircraft cannot slow down and descend at the same time. I knew it was sort of problematic in FS, but interesting to hear it was that way in real life!

Thanks for the insight,
Kurt

(By the way, I do enjoy "flying" the DC-8)

[connieguy]

The link is working again now, at least in the UK.

[Wolfgang]

same here in Germany, it's available again.

[aerofoto]

Precisely as stated by "BIGGIRAFFE" ....

the aircraft cannot slow down and descend at the same time

.... that's the way she/the DC-8 was .... so .... "SLOW DOWN BEFORE GOING DOWN"

I knew it was sort of problematic in FS, but interesting to hear it was that way in real life!

The way I address this (per my HJG manual) .... and in fact the RW procedure used is basically as follows ....


- From approximately 10 DME "prior to" the TOD .... reduce power/airspeed/velocity "prior to" commencing the decent (in FS I typically cruise at FL310, so, 110 DME prior to the destination airport or its nearest navaid becomes my power reduction point).

- Airspeed needs to be reduced "below 300 KIAS" (290-295 KTS is desirable) prior to commencing any decent.

- From FL310 .... "and only once airspeed has been reduced to between 290-295 KTS" .... commence the descent from 100 DME prior to the destination airport or its nearest navaid (distance will obviously be determined by the elevation of the destination airport though, so, be prepared adjust the TOD point accordingly in order to properly compensate) and at a ROD not exceeding 2000 FPM.

- Upon commencing the descent power needs to be further reduced .... and progressively adjusted/reduced at various altitude levels throughout the entire descent .... and with minor ROD adjustments also, but, only if/when absolutely necessary.


"IF" the above procedure is performed correctly .... and accordingly .... then .... one should never exceed 300 KTS throughout any stage of the descent .... and .... always arrive at around 10,000 FT, and at 250 KTS, by around 30 DME from one's destination airport or its nearest navaid .... and which enables further easy decent to any destination airports recommended circuit altitude with downwind, base, and final approach maneuvering.

I've done this zillions of times as recommended, by me, within the HJG manual at it works "almost perfectly" .... provided its done properly/with precision

Flying the DC-8's simulations though (although the above recommended procedures apply to any other simulated aircraft too) .... "GOOD PLANNING" is as essential as "STAYING AHEAD OF" the simulation also .... or things "will" go to hell in a hand basket and very quickly.

A particular feature of all DC-8 versions that some aren't aware of (and this "is" RW and represented within the HJG DC-8 simulations) is that Wing Spoilers "MUST NOT" be used in flight .... it's an aerodynamic "NO NO" with DC-8's and one which has inadvertently resulted in at least 2 major DC-8 disasters during the 1960's/70's ....


AIR CANADA DC-8-63 CF-TIW ACCIDENT REPORT
aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19700705-0


In the case of all DC-8 versions the Wing Spoilers "MUST" be deployed on ground only .... "after" touchdown.

Another lesser known feature of all DC-8's (given the Wing Spoilers must not be used in flight) is "inflight reverse thrust". This's defined as being "inflight reverse idle" .... not full reverse .... and only on the # 2 and #3 inboard engines .... not all 4 engines) in order to assist/increase the ROD .... only when necessary. Inflight reverse idle is not practiceable among any of the HJG DC-8 simulations though.

During the late 1990's however the FAA "banned" the use of inflight reverse idle on DC-8-70's due to a couple of instances of the CFM-56 engines on these aircraft shedding nacelle covers in flight and which was the result of the corresponding vibration created by the effect/s of inflight reverse idle.

My best memories of the DC-8-50's and SUPER 61's .... was the sound of air-assisted startup (affectionately referred to within the civil aviation community as "THE DC-8 MATING CALL" ) .... advance the following video to around "1:35" in order to come straight to this particular point ....


DC-8-61 ENGINE STARTUP
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_USqwNZvoI


The starters on DC-8-10 through -40 aircraft demonstrated similar audio characteristics, but a slightly different/higher tone due to the engine cowl shape .... all of which is faithfully recorded within HJG's customised DC-8 sound packs which were recorded from "the real thing/s".

Nothing else in civil aviation (so far as engine starters are concerned and, again, only so far as the DC-8-10 through 61 SERIES are concerned also) at the time, or since, ever sounded like this/as demonstrated per the above video

It's a unique audio characteristic, like the tones of many other old aviation sounds, that's now been lost to time

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[biggiraffe]

Hi Mark,
I appreciate the good info!
I heard the "DC-8 mating call" at SFO a few times, either Delta or National aircraft (don't recall seeing United start up, though they were plentiful). I'll miss that, along with the cool sound the C-5 Galaxy engines used to make while running.

Best regards,
Kurt