Problems slowing down.

[coenraad]

Hey there guys, i have a question.
I mostly flew the L1049, but now i am taking the L749 to the skies again and i encounter something i had problems with before with her.
I did install the flight model update.
The problem is slowing down. The flight manual says to descent at aprox 1000ft/m. Problem is, that my speed will be around 210-200kts IAS. Even with 20"map and setting rpm to 1800. So i can't do a nice straight in decend aproach. Even descending 200Ft/m makes it allmost impossible to slow below 177kts where i can pop the flap to slowe me down. (doing that at tat speed gives a huge lift as a start as well).

The L1049G`s flight model is allot different and slows down more easely. And besides has a higher max speed for her flaps. But with the 749 i find myself having to fly level or even slightly climb to brake in time to deploy the flaps and gear.
I tried auto rich and auto lean, but PMEP stays the same so i use AutoRich allmost standard on landing. If i set mix to 100% i do lose BMEP, but then i get really low on BMEP, so that is kind of very unreal. (i am a realism freak).
What can it be that i do wrong? Do i need to go down earlier and stay like a while on 4000ft to slow down etc? Like i am maybe flying too much like if i was flying a jetliner?
But then again, as said, even straigh forward she slows down at a very low rate.

Please some advice.

[jesse]

Hi, Coenraad. If you downloaded the C-121A manual, it is comparable to the L-749. Go to Section II, page 30 and 31 and it will give you the proper procedures for your decent from altitude and also your proper configuration for approach speed, etc. You can begin slowing down some ways out from the threshold and your approach speed should be around 122 kts. For passenger comfort, commercial liners rarely exceed 500 feet per minute.

Jesse

[coenraad]

Where can i find that manual?

[jesse]

I uploaded the manual to my site for several days. I guess you must have missed it. I'll put it back up this afternoon and leave it up for a couple of hours so you can download it. I hope you are not on dialup because it is a fairly large file and needs DSL. Also the file is in pdf so you will need Adobe Reader to open it. The file is approx 58MB in size.

Jesse

[wbrand2]

Thanks for putting it back up. I missed it first time. What a treasure.
--Bill

[coenraad]

Ok, downloading it now. I has fast net. Takes maybe 5-8 minutes tops ^^

And thank you by the way.

[sunny9850]

Slow down in level flight before you leave your cruise altitude. How slow depends on weight, winds and how you timed things.

The 1000ft/min is the max you would initially go to...and yes you will not be able to do that all the way to the IAF and then transition immediately into an approach configuration.

Flaps are not speed brakes in any case but there also is a tiny difference between our model and the real one. The FS L-749 has a set number of notches for the flaps where the real thing has none....the flight crew can therefor walk out flaps in much smaller increments than you can in the sim.

Generally I plan my let down early enough to not exceed 700ft/min and allow for a level off point about 3-4 miles from the IAF for my approach.

In FS and with most online ATC you will have to ask for that early descent because the digital or human controller expects the slam dunk of a Jet.

And yes the L-1049 is a bit draggier overall than the L-749. It's the same wing carrying a bigger load.

Stefan

[coenraad]

That manual is great.
I took a flight and went down earlier, and went too 4000ftagl, when i was 29nm out and used 20"map and 1800rpm and slowed all the way to 150. then before i went to 3000ft, i deployed flaps to 60% and kept her at 140 until aproach/finals. That went indeed allot better then trying to aproach straight in.
Seems i am just a bit too impatiend. Need to learn to live with some slow flying before landing.

[Lockheed]

One more thing: Mixtures are in FULL RICH for approach and landing. It's on the Before Landing Final Check List.

[Defender]

Coenraad,

It looks like you must have missed this section of the Manual (P21) that comes with Manfred's model.

"It is even more critical than in the Super Constellation to arrive at the airfield with the
proper speed. Make sure you are at 130 kts with first stage of flaps extended (take-off setting)
by the time you reach the initial approach fix. Allow for 3 or 4 minutes level flight at initial
approach height in order to slow down. An airspeed of 150 kts is recommended for flap
extension, max. flap extension speed is 174 kts, but if you’re that fast, you will have to retrim
considerably as speed bleeds off. If you are still too fast, enter a holding pattern to allow
airspeed to slow down."

There is saying I think, "you can slow down or go down but not both together".

Happy flying

Bill

[coenraad]

Feb 28, 2010 21:43:50 GMT -5 Lockheed said:

One more thing: Mixtures are in FULL RICH for approach and landing. It's on the Before Landing Final Check List.

My ingame checklist, gives Auto Rich, not auto full, so that is why i used Auto rich.
I use auto rich also on takeoff, as said in that checklist, that is good right?
Btw does the 1049 allso need to land on Full rich then?

Even when having mix on full i should keep 100BMEP if possible right?

p.s. that 1000ft/m descent rate i also gotten from that infligth checklist. Maybe someone could fix that in an update?
As others told 500 is allot nicer etc.
I now seem to fly her allot more calm. Now that i fly lower and slower.

Thanks allot sofar for the help guys.

[Tom Test]

I think, when these large propliners were dominant in the skies, descent directly from cruise altitude to the fix for a straight-in approach would have been unusual. In the era before traffic control was based on automated surveillance radar, descent in a vertically stacked holding pattern was more common, and circling approaches were more likely than straight in.

The practice of diving from cruise into the terminal area to get on the ground quickly was developed to help the economics of turbojet operations, and the infrastructure to support that was not developed until the jetliners came into service. Now we all have to find a way to make a traffic system tailored for jets meet our other needs.

[thomas]

Surely the mixture setting isn't always Full Rich, but depends on aircraft and the airports' altitude?

If you were to do a go-around at Johannesburg (FAJS - about 5500ft above sea level) you wouldn't be able to develop full power with the mixtures at Full Rich - and being a "Hot 'n High" location, you'd want every ounce of power the engines have to offer.

Feb 28, 2010 21:43:50 GMT -5 Lockheed said:

One more thing: Mixtures are in FULL RICH for approach and landing. It's on the Before Landing Final Check List.

[sunny9850]

The FULL RICH entry on the checklist is from the airline POH. Now there may be a point to be made that they may actually set AUTO RICH in thatsituation but this was the information we had.

As for available power in the situation you describe even FULL RICH would probably be sufficient for an airplane executing a GoAround at normal landing weights. There is a lot of power available from those 4 R-3350s and you may not want to fiddle with mixture settings in the rather hectic environment of a balked landing.

Stefan

[coenraad]

So landing is on Full Rich, but is takeoff also done on Full Rich, or is that in Auto Rich? The way i understand it only the landing (and maybe a go around) are done on Full?