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Post by okami on Apr 11, 2010 14:51:52 GMT -5
Just wondering about this one, given what happened yesterday in Russia.
Jesse, back when you were in MATS, and the word went out that a delegation of brass had to go somewhere to do something official, what was the usual amount of planes that were sent to do the job? And were there any kind of official measures in place to prevent something like yesterday happening?
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Post by sunny9850 on Apr 11, 2010 15:56:22 GMT -5
Can't speak for the way it used to be done, but one thing that struck me in the reports that I have heard on NPR was that the accident happened on the 4th try to land at this airport.
Generally the only reason to fly an approach a second time is when you know you missed the first one because of pilot deviation.
That is you did not get the airplane on the needles or arrive on course and altitude at the MAP.
If you go missed despite having flown the approach perfectly you better have a darned good reason to try again. For example patchy fog that rolled in just as you approach but there is a very good chance that it will move off by the time you come back around.
Otherwise head for your Alternate airport....that's what it is for.
Stefan
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Post by jesse on Apr 11, 2010 17:09:36 GMT -5
Just wondering about this one, given what happened yesterday in Russia. Jesse, back when you were in MATS, and the word went out that a delegation of brass had to go somewhere to do something official, what was the usual amount of planes that were sent to do the job? And were there any kind of official measures in place to prevent something like yesterday happening? The policy has not changed since I left flying MATS in '59. In the USAF, it is common practice that the President and the Vice President are never on the same aircraft. When the President is flying on Air Force One, he usually has a contingent of high ranking military personnel with him; as for example the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and his staff. Our higher ranking diplomats such as the Secretary of State and other cabinet members have their own aircraft and do not fly with the President. The organization that is responsible for carrying our High Ranking Brass is the 89th Special Air Mission wing and its subordinate units based at Andrews Air Force Base. I personally never carried any brass and I believe the highest rank I ever flew was a Navy two star Admiral. I did carry the first class of the new USAF Academy in 1954 when the first class of cadets went to Japan for two weeks summer training in the field. The USAF Academy was still under construction and the first class were billeted at Lowry Air Force Base outside Denver. Jesse |
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Post by emfrat on Apr 12, 2010 3:56:02 GMT -5
Towards the end of WW2, so they say, Churchill and about half of his Cabinet were to attend a conference with their counterparts in the US. WSC was heavily criticised for commandeering not one but three of the new Liberators to take the party across the Pond, for what by that time looked more like a junket than a necessary war effort. On being asked to explain himself, he said "I didn't want to put all the baskets in one egg". Younger viewers might need to know that in the UK, to refer to someone as a "basket" is a slightly more polite way of questioning their parentage.  Cheers MikeW |
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Post by okami on Apr 12, 2010 8:39:49 GMT -5
The policy has not changed since I left flying MATS in '59. In the USAF, it is common practice that the President and the Vice President are never on the same aircraft. When the President is flying on Air Force One, he usually has a contingent of high ranking military personnel with him; as for example the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and his staff. Our higher ranking diplomats such as the Secretary of State and other cabinet members have their own aircraft and do not fly with the President. The organization that is responsible for carrying our High Ranking Brass is the 89th Special Air Mission wing and its subordinate units based at Andrews Air Force Base. So I gather that something like what happened there, in terms of personalities carried (the President, the Secretary and four Undersecretaries of State, Chief of Staff of the armed forces and commanders of Army, Navy, Air Force and Special Forces amongst others) would never be allowed under any circumstances in the Air Force? For some reason I can't quite explain, I'm stuck with this mental image of a school bus run now... ;D |
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Post by sunny9850 on Apr 12, 2010 12:05:47 GMT -5
Not every country does have the funds to fly a C-5 Galaxy along with the two 747s and escort fighters just so that the Chief has his own car and ambulance at the destination  The press corps arrived at the Smolensk airport in a separate airplane a short time before the Tu-154 so there were at least two airplanes involved in the shuttle. Maybe just not the best mix of passengers. Now it appears that the airplane only made 1 attempt at landing but circled the airport 3 times, probably while the crew discussed if they should follow the advice from ATC and land in Moscow or Minsk and piss of the president again. They had been flying him before and refused to change destination as demanded by him for security reasons despite a visit to the cockpit by the man himself. Stefan |
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Post by ejoiner on Apr 12, 2010 18:58:53 GMT -5
Actually the US uses C-17's as well for the POTUS and his posse.
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Post by sunny9850 on Apr 12, 2010 19:22:52 GMT -5
All I know is that the last time we were grounded at the airport due to a fundraiser visit by W the distinctive 747 and a C-5 were parked at KONT. Not sure where the backup and the escorts were at that moment.
Since the C17 can carry 170,000lbs or there abouts it certainly could do the job.
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