Post by volkerboehme on Aug 10, 2008 12:10:53 GMT -5
This thread demonstrates rather well the problem that arises when users assume that the ATC in MSFS is in any way realistic. In real life the altitude at which the mandatory arrival procedure ends, (crosses the initial approach point), is often different to the altitude at which the approach must begin from the same location. The arrival ends at a holding pattern and the approach starts from the same holding pattern, but at a much lower altitude. The aircraft must descend in the holding pattern until it reaches the altitude at which the approach begins. This is the first thing explained and illustrated in Part 3 of the Propliner Tutorial.
The only way to succeed in flying the KSLC 35 ILS is to fly the real arrival and real approach which must be downloaded from the internet.
naco.faa.gov/digital_tpp.asp?ver=0613&eff=12-21-2006&end=01-18-2007
Everyone interested in flying propliners over the CONUS should investigate this site and teach themselves to obtain the real arrival, approach and departure procedures. Microsoft don' t have a clue. Fortunately the FAA do.
However these days there is no procedural approach to 35 at KSLC. As explained in Part 3 of the Propliner Tutorial it is sometimes necessary to work out what the real approach procedure was before radar vectors became mandatory for traffic sequencing. The appropriate STAR for the direction of arrival must be followed to the Initial Approach Point (IAP) which in this case is the Fairfield (FFU) VOR. The 35 ILS plate discloses that the minimum altitude to arrive at the FFU from the southern arc is 12700 QNH. Then since safe radar vectors and safe descent clearances are not available from Microsoft we must descend in the FFU hold to the altitude at which the 35 ILS approach begins.
These days there is no holding pattern at the FFU associated with the 35 ILS approach. However since the 35 ILS plate discloses that we must leave FFU tracking 338M we may assume that the original hold used by propliners in the classic era was south east of FFU inbound track 338M with left hand turns and one minute legs. The procedure for flying transitions (including STARS) and for descending in the hold from the altitude at which the arrival ends to the altitude at which the approach begins is the first thing explained in part 3 of the Propliner Tutorial.
The 35 ILS plate discloses that we must leave FFU maintaining 8800 QNH on a track of 338M until we intercept the 35 Localiser. We must continue to maintain 8800 QNH to CYRSS established on the Localiser. After CYRSS we may descend to 6300 QNH. After KERNN we may descend on the Glideslope.
Propliner navigation is a very precise 4D process. Blundering towards the runway on random headings, at high random rates of descent, from random altitudes, is never the correct procedure. In a propliner there is no need to fly any part of the arrival or approach at greater than 700 VSI and there is always lots of time to think things through and change aircraft configuration correctly as each handling note target comes into play. Propliner approaches are laid back leisurely processes usually flown at minus 500 to minus 700 VSI.
KSLC is at 4227 QNH and so is about 8400 feet below the lowest level at which we may cross the Initial Approach Point at FFU (12700 QNH) and at minus 700 VSI we expect to take a *minimum* of 8400/700 = 12 minutes to descend in the hold and fly the approach from the FFU VOR to the runway. Most FS9 users rush the approach very badly. The real procedures are available for free and tell us all exactly how to fly the approach and how to have the maximum chance of succeeding.
Downloading the real procedures and flying the real procedures may seem complicated and not worth the effort, but that is a big mistake because they explain how to succeed instead of fail. Sometimes, as in this case, we need to backdate them a little by adding a holding pattern. It is not hard to work out how it should be alligned with the approach.
FSAviator 12/06
The only way to succeed in flying the KSLC 35 ILS is to fly the real arrival and real approach which must be downloaded from the internet.
naco.faa.gov/digital_tpp.asp?ver=0613&eff=12-21-2006&end=01-18-2007
Everyone interested in flying propliners over the CONUS should investigate this site and teach themselves to obtain the real arrival, approach and departure procedures. Microsoft don' t have a clue. Fortunately the FAA do.
However these days there is no procedural approach to 35 at KSLC. As explained in Part 3 of the Propliner Tutorial it is sometimes necessary to work out what the real approach procedure was before radar vectors became mandatory for traffic sequencing. The appropriate STAR for the direction of arrival must be followed to the Initial Approach Point (IAP) which in this case is the Fairfield (FFU) VOR. The 35 ILS plate discloses that the minimum altitude to arrive at the FFU from the southern arc is 12700 QNH. Then since safe radar vectors and safe descent clearances are not available from Microsoft we must descend in the FFU hold to the altitude at which the 35 ILS approach begins.
These days there is no holding pattern at the FFU associated with the 35 ILS approach. However since the 35 ILS plate discloses that we must leave FFU tracking 338M we may assume that the original hold used by propliners in the classic era was south east of FFU inbound track 338M with left hand turns and one minute legs. The procedure for flying transitions (including STARS) and for descending in the hold from the altitude at which the arrival ends to the altitude at which the approach begins is the first thing explained in part 3 of the Propliner Tutorial.
The 35 ILS plate discloses that we must leave FFU maintaining 8800 QNH on a track of 338M until we intercept the 35 Localiser. We must continue to maintain 8800 QNH to CYRSS established on the Localiser. After CYRSS we may descend to 6300 QNH. After KERNN we may descend on the Glideslope.
Propliner navigation is a very precise 4D process. Blundering towards the runway on random headings, at high random rates of descent, from random altitudes, is never the correct procedure. In a propliner there is no need to fly any part of the arrival or approach at greater than 700 VSI and there is always lots of time to think things through and change aircraft configuration correctly as each handling note target comes into play. Propliner approaches are laid back leisurely processes usually flown at minus 500 to minus 700 VSI.
KSLC is at 4227 QNH and so is about 8400 feet below the lowest level at which we may cross the Initial Approach Point at FFU (12700 QNH) and at minus 700 VSI we expect to take a *minimum* of 8400/700 = 12 minutes to descend in the hold and fly the approach from the FFU VOR to the runway. Most FS9 users rush the approach very badly. The real procedures are available for free and tell us all exactly how to fly the approach and how to have the maximum chance of succeeding.
Downloading the real procedures and flying the real procedures may seem complicated and not worth the effort, but that is a big mistake because they explain how to succeed instead of fail. Sometimes, as in this case, we need to backdate them a little by adding a holding pattern. It is not hard to work out how it should be alligned with the approach.
FSAviator 12/06