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Post by leutnantwerner on Sept 21, 2014 6:01:28 GMT -5
Hi, I think it's worth to create an special thread about this topic. At the thread of *jwh Alabama* I got the bait in terms of Huntsville = Redstone Arsenal = NASA and wrote: Hi, I got my inspiration for this project from the movie *The Right Stuff*. Presently I'm in collecting data (pictures and airfield layouts) to estimate the amount of workload it will bring. Since all NASA *roads* lead to the Cape and making it attractive to go there, the Cape Canaveral Air Force station scenery should be decorated with stuff regarding the Mercury (first choice) or Gemini (later option) project. This will then *dictate* the time period around 1961/62, so infos of Edwards AFB about this time are highly desired. A big question for me is still the Skid Strip KXMR, since I can't find precise pictures from the even few buildings there (control tower). 3D models of the launch pads and tracking stations I have already on hand. Cheers Bernie I hope not to disappoint Fs9 users, that I will create this little sceneries for FSX at first.  So beginning with Cape Canaveral and the Air Force Station in particular, it's poorly rendered like this:  Close up the *Skid Strip* KXMR airfield, remnants from the early period, launch pads 11 to 20. In the distance the still active pads 41, 39A and 39B, the VAB and the *Shuttle Landing Strip*. South of the *Skid Strip* all the lauch pads are missing, MS forgot even to draw the roads. The well known landmark, the Cape Canaveral lighthouse, is not there and the harbour is only outlined. Attachment DeletedThis is the way it should looks like, but not later than the period of project Mercury, I think. KXMR should also need MATS and civil AI traffic, because lots of material has to be transported to the Cape and personal ply between here and other places throughout the country. Here is a movie of unloading a Atlas Centaur from a C-133 in 1962: Unloading a Atlas Centaur made by Convair/San DiegoCheers Bernie |
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Post by FSMuseum on Sept 21, 2014 8:50:43 GMT -5
This looks amazing! That bottom picture of all the launch pads reminds me of the repeating textures of land class in FS2004  |
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Post by deltalima on Sept 21, 2014 9:26:02 GMT -5
Missile Row. Amazing. Scarcely dreamed this could be possible. Wonderful surprise out of the blue - thanks in advance for all the effort.
Daniel
Ps. Let's talk AI. I can probably help. Not MAIW level talent by any stretch, but happy to help if I can.
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essub
ConvairLiner
Posts: 82
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Post by essub on Sept 21, 2014 10:12:39 GMT -5
Hi there, Cape Canaveral for FS9 in 1958/1961 would be great. Does anybody have a lauch pad for Jupiter C/Mercury/Atlas ICBM as a scenery object for FS9? I remeber to have seen something like this at the Sketchup warehouse. I confess I did never manage to convert a Sketchup object into a working .bgl - so maybe there is a helpful hand. I concur that Redstone Arsenal and KEDW hae a lot of attraction. Currently I am tinkering around with an backdated KEDW - does anybody have some pictures of the various buildings as of 1958-1961, for instance tower, hangars etc. ? The charts of JWH are very helpful but pictures are rare - at least I did not find good ones via Google. Some time ago I made a very primitive scenery incl some AI for White Sands missile test area - only a promitive AFCAD and some Regulus/Mace cruise missiles taken from cfs2 - very rudimentary and not really satisfying; just to have something flying around there.
Cheers
Kalle
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Sept 21, 2014 12:08:26 GMT -5
Hi,
Happy to add some traffic for this airport to the basic MATS package, if someone sends me some likely flight plans.
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Post by deltalima on Sept 22, 2014 0:16:58 GMT -5
Again, this is such great news.
Insofar as launch complexes, I'll be happy with whatever gets released. To clarify some confusion, though, as to what was and was not up during the period Bernie is picking (1962) - the Titan/Gemini pads had already been erected and used. Though the manned Gemini flights began in '65, the main Gemini pad (Launch Complex - LC) 19 was already being used for unmanned test launches as far back as 1959. The other Titan II-specific LCs were LC-15 and LC-16, both of which began operations in 1959. Zooming in on Bernie's photo, the Gemini pad is already in existence (10th pad, starting with the nearest and counting up).
This just for historical context. If all that we have is a Redstone or Atlas (LC-5 or LC-14) models, that's still just amazing, and nothing to say they can't be placeholders for the Titan LCs.
This whole bit of scenery I've only dreamed of ever seeing in the sim. A real dream come true.
If Tom wants to do the MATS end of this, I'm happy to do some astronaut training AI between Ellington, KEDW, and the Cape. Just let me know ...
dl
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Post by Bjoern on Sept 22, 2014 7:39:32 GMT -5
Happy to add some traffic for this airport to the basic MATS package, if someone sends me some likely flight plans. No flightplan format or discrimination between services here*, but this is what I'd put in: - Atlas haulers to/from San Diego (C-124, C-133, twice weekly?) - Redstone haulers to/from Huntsville (C-124, C-133, once or twice weekly) - Business and medium cargo traffic to/from Huntsville (daily) - Business traffic to/from Washington (NASA headquarters, daily) - Business traffic to/from Houston (every two days, Houston wasn't really booming until 1962) - Medium cargo to/from L.A. (Rocketdyne) - Titan I haulers from Santa Ana (Martin; C-124, C-133, once weekly?) - Mercury hauls to/from St. Louis (once weekly?) - Polaris hauls to/from Burbank (once weekly?) ...etc... Plus traffic from JPL or any avionics contractors like Bell labs or something. *I don't know what MATS actually shuttled back and forth. Rockets are a given, but also small, sensitive stuff like engines and avionics packages? The other Titan II-specific LCs were LC-15 and LC-16, both of which began operations in 1959. For Titan I test launches? |
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Post by deltalima on Sept 22, 2014 11:00:56 GMT -5
Yes, Bjoern, mostly. Conversion of those two LCs for Titan II took place around the very early 60s, as the Titan I gave way to the Titan II, which with it's storable propellant design, gave a more flexible launch capability than the previous Titan I and Atlas vehicles.
I'm so stoked that a pre-VAB Cape is underway ... flying over those demolished LCs with only the pads left is a bit depressing. Kudos to Bernie for taking this on, and for picking a great "year" - probably the ideal period where the number of LCs were at their peak. By around 1964, some of the Redstone and Atlas launch structures were beginning to be deactivated and dismantled. So '62 is indeed a great year. Coupled with some great goings on KEDW in the early 60s, and the establishment in Houston of the Manned Space Centre (MSC) in 1961 and the Aircraft Operations Division in 1962 to handle astronaut flight training / proficiency at KEFD (now completed with Juan's lovely KEFD), 1962 will be an awesome year ...
Cue hopping into 62 Ford Thunderbird for a milkshake at sunset, with the Rivieras "California Sun" playing on the radio ...
dl
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Post by leutnantwerner on Sept 23, 2014 3:34:24 GMT -5
Hi, Bjoern,that's the right way, but the traffic must be carefully spread over, say a week, because we have only three parkings at the ramp. As one can see in the video, the Atlas rocket was unloaded on the taxiway. Here are two screen shots, about the work I did so now: Facing noth east the launch pads 5 and 6 with the *A* style gantries and a raw Redstone mockup, just to see if the scale is right. The *modern* launch pads and the VAB, plus the Shuttle landing site, are all wiped out.  Looking south, all new roads, the industrial complex in front and the Mercury mission control center south east to the Skid Strip. The runway of the Skid Strip has now an underlying polygon of coral, since they used coral in the beginning to stabilize the ground. In the far south east I put the basic landclass polys of the Cape Canaveral harbour.  Bernie |
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Sept 23, 2014 9:41:39 GMT -5
Looking good, Bernie. I was watching Now, Voyager on TCM last night (yep, I'm a sucker for a romantic movie if it's good), and at the end was reminded of this thread title. Not quite the same: "Oh, Jerry, don't let's ask for the moon. We have the stars." But still a good one. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDq7d_rkhbg |
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Post by Bjoern on Sept 23, 2014 10:21:54 GMT -5
Yes, Bjoern, mostly. Conversion of those two LCs for Titan II took place around the very early 60s, as the Titan I gave way to the Titan II, which with it's storable propellant design, gave a more flexible launch capability than the previous Titan I and Atlas vehicles. I'm reading " On The Shoulders Of Titans" at the moment and they're singing high praises of the Titan II as it needed minimal changes to obtain its man-rating for Gemini. Bjoern,that's the right way, but the traffic must be carefully spread over, say a week, because we have only three parkings at the ramp. Three parking spots all in all or three parking spots for heavies? In case of the former, this might make things a bit challenging. You could put a parking spot on the taxiway that is exclusively reserved for MATS missile carriers, with each aircraft having a turnaround time of about six hours or less. It needs to be near the ramp as other traffic has to go around it. Spreading the flights out over the course of a week isn't much of a problem. You can have as much as three or four unloadings a day at the Cape with five days of operation (or maybe six?) and only the most important business traffic using the remaining spots. If you send me the AFCAD, I could do the required changes to it and I would produce a generic flight plan for the Cape, but the aircraft will be placeholders (I'm no 1960s guy). I also need info about an another airfield in the vicinity of KXMR (that's the ICAO of the Cape, right?) that can take much of the business traffic from Washington, etc... |
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Sept 23, 2014 10:48:34 GMT -5
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Post by deltalima on Sept 23, 2014 11:11:48 GMT -5
Depends on close, and what business. Merritt Island (KCOI) is/was GA only. Patrick AFB was about your next closest, and insofar as NASA related business goes, another good source for AI traffic. NAS Banana River was deactivated - but I believe partly intact during the 60s - in any case, it'd have come under USAF control as part of Patrick AFB. I believe that traffic would have largely been related to weather/MET for the range. Bernie, those preliminary shots look just superb - way more detailed than I could have dreamed possible. Hope they don't kill FPS!  LC 5 and 6 look fantastic. Insofar as scale goes, if your placeholder rocket's height is representative of total height of Mercury/Redstone vehicle (incl launch escape tower atop the capsule) then I'd say it's pretty well dead on. Great updates! Daniel
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Post by leutnantwerner on Sept 23, 2014 17:19:10 GMT -5
The models have at least two LOD's to produce good frame rates.
Does someone has pictures from Port Canaveral, around 1962?
Bernie
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Post by Bjoern on Sept 24, 2014 6:57:55 GMT -5
Depends on close, and what business. Merritt Island (KCOI) is/was GA only. Patrick AFB was about your next closest, and insofar as NASA related business goes, another good source for AI traffic. NAS Banana River was deactivated - but I believe partly intact during the 60s - in any case, it'd have come under USAF control as part of Patrick AFB. I believe that traffic would have largely been related to weather/MET for the range. Sooo...heavy traffic to XMR, medium traffic to COF, GA traffic to COI? Yes/no/maybe? |
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Hi,
LC 5 and 6 look fantastic. Insofar as scale goes, if your placeholder rocket's height is representative of total height of Mercury/Redstone vehicle (incl launch escape tower atop the capsule) then I'd say it's pretty well dead on.