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Post by paulopp on May 20, 2015 16:10:34 GMT -5
Hello,
I wonder which gauges were originally installed on the center main panel where now the Bendix AP (originally located on the center pedestal) has been placed for easier access in the Starliner sim. Telling from a picture of the interior of D-ALIN, a famous Lufthansa Super-G exhibited at Hermeskeil, Germany, there seems to be some sort of RMI or flux compass (?) installed. However, I'm far from sure and I hope somebody can clear that up.
paulopp
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on May 20, 2015 17:54:27 GMT -5
To me that area seemed to be for "optional gauges". I have seen many different types of gauges there.
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Post by Defender on May 21, 2015 5:42:10 GMT -5
Hi,
Depends on the airline. For various reasons nearly all preferred to keep the panel layout as standard as possible so in most cases the Starliner panel was similar to that airline's later L1049G/H's.
Lufthansa used that glareshield panel for the Sperry zero reader controls and that fluxgate compass on both the Starliner and the L1049G. The middle switch seems to be a selector, possibly for the nav receivers. This panel was quite a common arrangement in many airlines. Quite a few used zero readers.
However, TWA did not use the zero reader on their Starliners (Bendix system instead) and their aircraft's glareshield has the radar system controls with the reversing lights below, as did their later L1049G/H aircraft. So as our model has no radar system and as the real radar panel was also a set of knobs and switches, it was the ideal place to put Tom's autopilot and still look quite realistic.
Air France was an exception to the standardisation rule. Their Starliners also had the radar controls on the glareshield as they had decided to use the new Sperry integrated flight system which didn't need the glareshield, in place of the zero readers in their L1049G's which, like Lufthansa, had no radar anyway.
I'll try to post a shot of a changes I made to the VC panel to get it to look closer to that Lufthansa arrangement. I added a dummy zero reader and moved the AP.
Bill
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Post by Defender on May 21, 2015 7:14:20 GMT -5
Hi again, Here's the VC panel I use on the L1049G and H, inspired by the excellent photos available of D-ALIN. The zero reader gauge and controller are dummy gauges with bitmaps based on photos I found on Ebay. I did however add a clickable DME to the gauge face. The AP is simply a rearrangement of Tom's using the layout visible in a number of photos on the web. This one is a working AP although unfortunately only available as 2D window. You might notice that D-ALIN does not appear to have the "FLIGHT PATH" controller part of the AP. When fitted it would be on the pedestal immediately ahead of the AP controller. That suggests that Lufthansa's L1049G's had no ability to capture or hold VOR courses or ILS. The pilot had to use the AP turn knob to hold the heading. However, Lufthansa was not alone in not installing this feature. Bill  |
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Post by paulopp on May 21, 2015 8:12:37 GMT -5
Thank you, Defender, for the valuable information and sharing your nice vc configuration. Indeed, D-ALIN uses a combination of the sperry zero reader selector and a fluxgate heading compass on the glare shield panel. Did Lufthansa and the other airlines, then, locate the actual sperry zero gauge indicator on the main panel or did they go without, just relying on the fluxgate indicator (which somehow makes no sense)?
Has a working sperry zero reader gauge not yet been implemented somewhere else? I noticed, though, that Glenn Duncan's wonderful amelioration of JBK's B-307 Stratoliner implements a functioning fluxgate compass with the double-line zero indicator, however, slaved to the AP heading bug rather than ADF or NAV courses.
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Post by paulopp on May 21, 2015 11:11:05 GMT -5
Here's the VC panel I use on the L1049G and H, inspired by the excellent photos available of D-ALIN. The zero reader gauge and controller are dummy gauges with bitmaps based on photos I found on Ebay. I did however add a clickable DME to the gauge face. The AP is simply a rearrangement of Tom's using the layout visible in a number of photos on the web. This one is a working AP although unfortunately only available as 2D window. By the way, would you object sharing your panel.cfg with us? I really like it. |
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Post by Defender on May 21, 2015 16:34:33 GMT -5
Hi,
Certainly happy to consider that and thanks for your interest but what exactly do you need? Is it just the revised VC gauge positions? I can easily send you the dummy zero reader, the compass comes from Manfred's L049 and the RMI/VOR selectors from the latest Starliner. I haven't done anything to the 2D main panel.
Probably best to chat by email. I'll send you a PM with my address.
On your earlier message, if you have a photo of D-ALIN'S panel the zero reader is top row second right. I don't know how they would have used the double needle fluxgate, possibly just as a heading reminder? Only the Starliner had an AP (PB20) that could take heading input directly from the compass systems. The L1049G's AP (PB10) had no such feature so heading was from the AP's turn knob or (if fitted) the VOR/ILS signals.
I'm sure I've seen a working zero reader on one of Fraser McKay's panels but sorry I can't recall which one. Never tried it.
Best regards
Bill
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Post by thomas on Jun 4, 2015 15:54:56 GMT -5
Please enlighten me: what is a zero-reader?
regards
Thomas
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Post by Defender on Jun 5, 2015 5:12:44 GMT -5
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Post by thomas on Jun 15, 2015 14:31:02 GMT -5
Thanks Defender, I'll check it out.
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Post by mkonareff on Jun 19, 2015 4:01:37 GMT -5
Hi Bill,
This looks great! I would be much interested by your panel mod. Actually it seem the Constellations cockpit were more often configured like yours than the current configuration. Would you be okay to share it?
Cheers,
Maxime.
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Post by Defender on Jun 20, 2015 9:51:39 GMT -5
Hi Maxime,
Yes, I will try to get the revised gauges and panel layout out to you and I've already promised them to the original poster, paulopp. Volker has kindly confirmed he has no objection to a revised panel layout and Tom has generously agreed to the revised AP layout, subject to the necessary credits being mentioned.
You might have to work out some of your own panel.cfg settings as my version has quite a few other variations from the release version. For example the only radios are now also on a separate window. And I should warn you that I haven't got a Connie 2D main panel version as I never use it.
I'll get back to you both by email.
Best regards
Bill
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Post by mkonareff on Jun 22, 2015 7:57:46 GMT -5
Many thanks Bill !
Looking forward to your email =)
Best,
Maxime.
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Post by Defender on Jun 26, 2015 14:54:36 GMT -5
Hi,
Just a correction to that earlier post about the zero reader. The double needle on the magnesyn compass was in fact a course selector. When you selected a new course the zero reader acted as a flight director and the course needle moved right or left to indicate the steering action required. Except for the Starliner the course selector knob did not control the autopilot, the pilot then either flew the zero reader's commands manually or using the autopilot's turn knob to steer the aircraft. In fact if you add the magnesyn compass (from the L049 gauge file) to the Super Connie's panel as I did you will find that the course knob will steer the aircraft through the autopilot but I'm afraid that's not realistic, just the way the FS compass options work?
Found it. It comes with the Hawker-Siddeley Andover (military Avro 748) panel but the style isn't particularly compatible with Hansi's gauges and in any case using it elsewhere needs Fraser McKay's consent. Just a pity we don't have one available as it was extremely common in both American and European aircraft in the '50's.
Bill
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Post by Tom/CalClassic on Jul 5, 2015 21:12:20 GMT -5
Did any other US airliners use it?
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