PropL. Tutor 2008 Part 5, 3D PLANNING

[bear]

Hi,

“We study the Burlington arrival plate” I can't find that plate ! (=KBTV)
“Download THE “arrival” plate for the “departure ...”, Which one ?
What is this about ! Here I do not understand what to do !

Can someone help me ?!

Regards, Guus.

[Tom/CalClassic]

You can download the Burlington arrival (approach) plates here:

www.airnav.com/airport/KBTV

Airnav is a great place to get such information for the USA.

Hope this helps,

[bear]

Thanks Tom,

I know that website with the modern approach plates. I was more surprised that Burlington KBTV is not part of the PropL. Tutor 2008 enclosed Approach plates.

Guus.

[bear]

... and by the way, it is only an airport diagram. No approach plate for KBTV !

[Tom/CalClassic]

Not true. Scroll down to the bottom of that page!

FS Aviator left that up to you as homework.

[bear]

Hi,
Yes, thank you, I know. I didn't mean an app. Plates present from the "Classic Age".

Regards, Guus.

[Tom/CalClassic]

All of the plates used by the Tutorial are modern ones. You typically cannot use classic plates as is because of magnetic drift that has occurred over the years.

[bear]

Hi Tom,

Yes, the 4 app. plates at the Tutor. are indeed "recent", but what about all those app.plates on your website (Flickr)? They are there to give the "Classic age" period even more realism! Despite the expired MagVar.
Going back to my original question, I find it odd that KBTV isn't just the 5th app plate at the Tutor.
It's not homework to look up an app plate on the I-net. That's (for me) weekly routine...

Regards, Guus

[Tom/CalClassic]

Sorry, thats the way he wrote it…

[bear]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your answers.
And wish you a good and healthy 2023!

Guus.

[mrcapitalism]

Hi Guus,

I didn't write the tutorial of course, but would give my thoughts on your questions.

Tom already gave you the location of the current KBTV arrival plate.

The reason you perform the departure with an arrival plate is because the published missed approach substitutes a non-radar departure procedure. You take off and fly the missed approach. I don't think a KBTV plate is included because it is not studied in detail. You are not asked to perform an instrument procedure at Burlington, only to to consider it when planning the departure route from Fryeburg.

And yes, the suggestion is to use modern plates, and as needed to "back date them" to the equipment available. I did this most recently in Hong Kong, backdating a VOR approach to become a QFG approach in a Pan Am flying boat.

Robert.

[bear]

Hi,

I can hardly understand what is meant in "COMMERCIAL CHOICES" & "3D PLANNING" in Part 5 Propl.Tutor. 2008 ! My best outcome for the flight from KIZG to KBTV is:
KIZG – szo @3500 ft, - ENE @3600 ft. - via V496 @4000 ft. - LEB - via V151 @4500 ft. - MPV - via V151 @6000 ft. - BTV @6000 ft. – KBTV.



Guus.

[Tom/CalClassic]

It’s a simulator so no real life drama. You are free to take it as seriously as you like, or not at all. I often didn’t understand things until I had read it through a few times and flew the examples.

But if you have any questions feel free to ask.

[mrcapitalism]

Well Guus, we have a slight problem. In 2023, the FAA has mandated that the airways in the area be mostly flown by GPS (They are "Tango" routes now, no longer "Victor"). :-D But I still have your victor airways in FSX.

Your cruise altitude needs to follow the hemispherical rule (the example is IFR).

Your proposed ENE.V496.LEB has an MEA of 5,000ft (West of GRUMP), so you can't fly it at 4,000. You can fly lower on V151, but 4,500 isn't an IFR altitude. And you have to go back up to 6,000ft MPV.V151.BTV anyways.

So the highest MEA on your entire route is 6,000ft. Which is an IFR altitude, and it's correct for the direction of flight (hemispherical rule). You can go higher if you want, and if weather/winds/ice allow (8,000ft or 10,000ft).

What you'll notice is that while the MEA on MPV.V151.BTV is 6,000ft, it's also 6,000ft on LEB.V141.BTV. I suggest you cut out MPV and shorten the route 3nm. You still have to be at 6,000ft.

So my proposal is as follows:

KIZG.(Departure via the NDB Missed Approach).SZO.(Reverse Feeder Route).ENE.V496.LEB.V141.BTV.(Instrument Approach).(Circle-to-land).KBTV

to repeat: KIZG.SZO.ENE.V496.LEB.V141.BTV.KBTV @ 6,000FT MSL

After takeoff climb directly to 6,000ft (or higher).

Remain in the SZO Hold until you pass 3,500ft, then depart the hold for ENE. Keep the constant climb to 6,000ft (or higher).

Fly the entire route at 6,000ft.

Commence descent and approach to KBTV per the remainder of the Propliner Tutorial.


Robert.

[bear]

Wow Robert ... Thank you for your detailed response ! I really appreciate your answer(s)!

I immediately noted the QNH of the Victor airways from my planner. I had indeed forgotten to apply the hemispherical rule ;-(
Incidentally, the direction of the first part of the route is east = odd thousends! From ENE this becomes western = even thousends.

Why I included MPV in the flight plan is because the Classic Ara preferred to fly via Victor ways (PropL.Tutor.)

The Missed App. @kbtv is via a "modern" dme ! Not "allowed" in 1955. So JRVIS then calculate 16.2 (dme) GS.

I think we both agree on the route of this flight. I would suggest: szo.KIZG @4500, the rest indeed @ 6000 minimum.

Guus.