Jury duty?

[everetteeugene]

All the Prius stuff. Hmmm? Who lives in San Diego that can get strapped with jury duty?

I can think of one person who better hide!

[Tom/CalClassic]

That won't be a hard one, since there is currently no evidence he faked it. The CHP (CA Highway Patrol) just released a report with nothing saying he faked it. Even though I own a Toyota (a 2002), I don't trust those electronic gas and brake systems...

[capflyer]

I still think the problem is in the computer, not the physical system.

[sunny9850]

I am sorry but if you are sitting in a "runaway car" and have time to call 911 you are missing a few links in my opinion, and yes that does include the "well trained police officer".

Let's assume the electronic throttle is really to blame, who is stopping these people from popping the car into neutral and then applying the brakes foot or emergency
So what if the engine blows up....Toyota just bought your car back...and even if not how much do you value your life and those around you.

The media is making way to much of this thing and unfortunately that brings out the attention seekers and no this time I do not mean the "well trained police officer"

Stefan

[ejoiner]

Agree with Sunny. The guy is a low wattage bulb. Put it in neutral and turn the car off. I got taught that in HS driving school...a billion years ago.

[sunny9850]

Actually some of the data that Toyota did pull from the latest Prius could be interpreted as "driver induced" ..... but it would of course be
hard to prove that he was actually pushing pedals or buttons and not just the software reading an input wrong.

I work on industrial machines with all sorts of electronic controls and controllers. We do use similar position controllers/motors as the automotive industry and have on occasion had "runaways".

Remember back in the 80s when Audi supposedly had runaway cars and the US media in their usual "sensationalism driven but fact-less" way went on bashing them......not a single case was actually confirmed as the cars fault. Just drivers making mistakes and then blaming the car for their own lack of attention or skills.

If there was a systemic problem with the electronic throttles in Toyotas how come not a single Lexus has had that problem yet ??
It is the same system largely designed by the same engineers.

Stefan

[capflyer]

There's a couple of things here -

1) You can't just "turn off" a Prius. It's a button, not a key turn switch. If the problem is in the computer, it's entirely possible that the button doesn't work.

2) The transmission is 100% electronic. Again, if it's computer-based, you can't just shift it into neutral.

This is one of the "bad" things about some of the new "gizmo's" that are out there. Push-button start is a nice feature, but when everything is run through one computer, if there's an issue - it all stops working.

As for Lexus issues - there have been problems reported. But the number of problems reported are almost exactly proportionate to the proportion between Lexus and Toyota production numbers for the models which share components.

[sunny9850]

The transmission may shift electronically from one gear to the other but certain functions such as park and neutral are typically done mechanically. I don't know if that is the case on the Prius here but it has to be done that way for example in Germany. Otherwise it is not legal to be on the road.

But even if it all else failed the brakes will stop the car even if the gas pedal was held to the floor on purpose ....on the Prius. And that has been tested since by Toyota and by some members of the press.

Stefan

[Tom/CalClassic]

Many people have claimed they tried to shift into Neutral *and* turn it off, but it didn't work. As I understand, it is all electronic except for the pawl that locks the wheels in Park.

We had a CHP officer and his family killed in a runaway Lexus right here in San Diego...

[sunny9850]

I currently drive a 3000 mile old Camry rental car while on a job and while I can't test any failures I can test brakes vs Full Throttle....and while it makes some interesting sounds it does stop from 70 mph.

Audi, Mercedes,Porsche have however installed a disconnect switch on the brake pedals in their electronic throttle systems which opens the circuit to the throttle positioning motor. A spring then returns the throttle to idle. This is not a new change, however it might be a good requirement to add.

Stefan

[Tom/CalClassic]

I agree, that should be one of several interlocks that should be present in ANY electronic system.

[sunny9850]

This discussion has gotten me curios now...and apparently the 2010 Prius does have such a kill switch system. The 2008 Prius in question does not.
I also found that the CVT transmission in the Prius does indeed not have any mechanical linkage...at least here in the US. Still looking for info on the Euro models.

However....the brakes are absolutely capable of stopping the car even if the throttle was stuck WOT and the car still in gear.

There are a few other parts of this guys story that don't pass muster for me though.

He said the car started this whole thing after he accelerated to pass a slower car. Then it just kept accelerating wildly.
If you have ever driven a 08 Prius you know it doesn't do anything wildly.

At the same time he states that he was being passed left and right while going 90+ miles an hour.
I know we do tend to drive a little faster in SoCal than the CHP likes us to do...but once you get past 90....you don't get passed very often

He also stated that he did NOT want to put the car into Neutral because he was scared it might flip over....which Hollywood movie did he get this from

I still think this was a grab at attention and possibly a check from Toyota to bail out his $800,000.00 debt.

Stefan

[Tom/CalClassic]

The other people that have been killed and maimed in the same circumstances certainly weren't doing it for the money...

[capflyer]

Tom, there's no doubt that there is/was a problem. The issue is that this guy just "happens" to have the problem on a Prius, which hadn't previously had problems with the accelerator, AFTER all of the hubub about the recall, says that it "wasn't on the recall list" but still failed.

I have to say that there's just too much stuff in this guy's story that doesn't add up either and I hope that they can prove conclusively what did happen (and if he did make it up - prosecute him and throw his rear in jail after throwing the book at him), because if he did do what is suspected, then he put not only his life, but the lives of those around him and the CHP officer who acted heroically to "stop" his runaway car in unnecessary danger. We can't let that happen.

[sunny9850]

Mar 19, 2010 16:37:09 GMT -5 Tom/CalClassic said:

The other people that have been killed and maimed in the same circumstances certainly weren't doing it for the money...

I agree Tom...although I still question the use of cell phones to call 911 in the situation in general.
Aviate,navigate,communicate works for airplanes....but I think concentrating on the task at hand, driving the car would have much greater benefits.

Cynic that I am I simply think the problem has been blown way out of proportion by the media which brings out the opportunists and attention seekers.

Drive your Toyota into a another vehicle at a reasonable speed while safely buckled in and then collect a few hundred thousand from Toyota....doesn't sound too far fetched to me.

There was another 2008 Prius that in the news just recently where at least preliminary data seems to indicate that the female driver did not brake until after impact.

I have had multiple stuck throttles, some in race cars and one in a personal vehicle.
I guess fortunately for me they were all analogue cars....and other than a trip through the kittie-litter at the Ring and a return to the Autobahn rather than the planned Exit nothing much happened.

The one on public roads was simply a case of frozen throttle linkage/cable so after I de-clutched and simultaneously turned off the ignition I could simply coast to a stop and pop the hood and clear a bit of ice off the throttle cable. And then continue on.

Of course the race cars do have a set of prominent kill switches that take care of that and other issues should you need them. ;D

Stefan