Post by volkerboehme on Aug 10, 2008 9:21:02 GMT -5
FSAviator has some additional comments about the Imperial Airways service to Britain (etc.):
I don't make much use of flying boats in MSFS, but I thought I would offer the following concerning Short Empire Boats and the significance of Southampton Water.
British flying boats were boats. They were built in the open on slipways, not in factories, they anchored in the open, and they were usually maintained in the open. A typical British 'flying boat base' was a shed by a small dock alongside which was a motor launch. At some locations the 'shed' was a houseboat.
The flying boats rarely berthed. Thin aluminium hulls and docks do not mix well in a swell and the commercial berths were apt to be in locations where 'propwash' was a continuous problem. It was labour intensive to berth a boat backwards and the process of pushing it into place with a passenger launch imposed various damage risks.
Usually, if the water was choppy, the flying boat was moored to a nearby buoy inside the harbour instead. If the weather was good the boat might be moored to a buoy out by the take off lane, which might be miles away, and outside the harbour. The Imperial Airways berths at Southampton were usually occupied by their motor launches.
However the marketing department of all flying boat airlines liked to give the impression that passengers could alight directly onto a dock without a journey of perhaps several miles across choppy water in a small motor launch. Thus official publicity photos tend to show the boat berthed, or moored very nearby the 'dock'. The paucity of passenger photos showing the same situation is testament to the fact that the boats were usually moored at a buoy and with the film of the day it was difficult to take good photos from a rolling and pitching launch.
The whole point of Imperial flying boats was that, except in just a few locations around the Empire, there were no expensive 'facilities' to maintain. Somewhere in the busy harbour was a fuel farm belonging to an oil company, not the airline. The oil company loaded their motor launch with drums of AVGAS and a hand pump and fuelled the boat at the buoy when asked. The passengers were whisked to and from their five star hotel, or residence, by coach or limousine. The last thing they wanted was for someone to invent the airline terminal and the check in desk. A 'base' would have a small slipway so that each boat could be hauled out of the water for hull inspection once a month. From 1939 at a really major 'base' there might be a hangar too.
Imperial Airways and later BOAC served the Empire. British subjects outnumbered American citizens four to one. The Empire was a long, long, way away from Britain. Originally all Imperial Airways flying boats were based in the port of Alexandria, at the head of the Suez Canal. The hub of Empire. From there they linked Italy to Egypt via Greece.
Passengers from Britain travelled to Italy by train. Imperial Airways landplanes carried passengers on from Egypt to North West India (now Pakistan) and the African colonies, continuing to South Africa. Later there was also a flying boat base on the Nile at Khartoum and after the arrival of the Empire boats they continued all the way from Italy to Durban. Eventually Imperial Airways obtained a licence from the Italian Government to fly landplanes to Italy from England. The introduction of the Empire boat in 1937 also allowed the flying boat service to continue east to Karachi, augmenting existing landplane services.
However more to the point it was also the introduction of the Empire boat in 1937 that allowed Imperial Airways flying boats to actually visit Britain for the first time, augmenting the landplane service from Italy. At first the new western terminus of the Empire route was in Southampton Water (southwest of EGHI).
Originally the 'base' was at Hythe, but this anchorage was very exposed and so the (motor launch) berths and bad weather mooring buoys soon moved to the port itself. Even so the waterway where the take off lanes were situated was very exposed, and it was also the busiest shipping lane in the world at the time. Consequently a 'base' was also established at the Yacht club inside Poole Harbour, which is the large, well sheltered, harbour southwest of Bournemouth (EGHH). In poor weather before WW2 the Poole terminus was used in lieu of Hythe/Southampton.
From 1938 one Imperial Airways Empire Boat was based in Durban. The Empire route from Pakistan to Australia was then taken over by QANTAS, using their Empire boats based at Rose Bay (Sydney), where there was a significant terminal and hangar facility. QANTAS flew the Empire service all the way from Karachi to Fiji, the latter being an important strategic destination from December 1941 onwards. Tasman Empire Airways used their Empire boats to extend the Empire service from Sydney to Auckland.
From WW1 until WW2 one of the largest R.A.F. flying boat bases was at the southern end of Southampton Water to the north of the Calshot Spit at the west entrance. This was the famous venue for the Schneider Trophy seaplane races and as such it is available as freeware period scenery for FS9. Several hydroplane manufactures had slipways along Southampton Water. Fairey and Supermarine for instance. Until May 1940 the Fleet Air Arm Seaplane School was based at Lee on Solent opposite RAF Calshot on the east bank. Saunders and Roe had their slipway on the Isle of Wight, on the other side of the Solent.
Empire boat operations from Southampton Water included the pioneering in flight refuelling sorties conducted by Flight Refuelling Ltd (now Cobham Aviation). The Mercury-Maia composite also flew from there and from 1938 until the invasion of France Mercury flew scheduled, airmail only, night services from Southampton Water to Alexandria. Mercury then joined the remnants of the Royal Dutch Air Force flying from the port of Felixstowe as 320 Sqn RAF. They used Mercury as a crew trainer, though strictly speaking Mercury was not an Empire boat. Maia remained at Southampton and was finally strafed to destruction in 1942.
Hythe, Southampton and Poole were just one far flung end of an Empire bus stop route whose other ends were in Durban and Fiji. The hubs of the Empire (Boat) services were always at Alexandria, Karachi and Sydney.
Imperial Airways had only a marginal interest in serving the U.S. since it was no longer a British colony, but from 1937 to 1939 they did base an Empire boat in the British offshore banking centre of Bermuda. From there it provided a twice weekly scheduled service to New York harbour, patronised mostly by wealthy Americans with an interest in banking their dollars in British banks where the IRS could not follow. The Imperial Airways flying boat base in this tiny outpost of Empire was an exception in that it was as plush as any built by PAA, who naturally had reciprocal rights on this international route.
Imperial Airways did have a remit to serve the millions of British subjects in the Dominion of Canada and to that end, following introduction of the Empire boat had reached an agreement with the Republic of Ireland to operate services to Canada from a large shed near Foynes on the river Shannon. After refuelling at Botwood in Canada the new western end of Empire route was Montreal. Some Montreal services continued to New York harbour.
The reciprocal PAA Boeing Clipper flying boat services operated briefly to Britain from New York, via Botwood and Foynes, in the summer of 1939 also terminated at Southampton Water. PAA made about fifteen visits, carrying a total of about 250 passengers, before abandoning services to the U.K. until well after WW2 when suitable landplanes were available.
Of course no commercial flying boat could ever cross the Atlantic via a northern route in Winter. The landing lanes in Botwood Bay were frozen. All flying boat services across the North Atlantic were summer only. The most northerly flying boat refuelling station in winter was in the Azores, in the Central Atlantic.
Imperial Airways was forcibly merged with British Airways and other airlines to become BOAC when war broke out. The Empire boat service to Montreal was temporarily suspended at the end of September 1939. It resumed briefly during the summer of 1940 and some services still continued to New York harbour. By the end of that summer all the BOAC North Atlantic services were landplane services as the Empire boats were needed further east.
When Germany invaded France in May 1940 the bombing and strafing of Southampton and Poole soon began. They were a short hop from the new Luftwaffe bases in Normandy. Consequently within two years of being established at Poole the 'British' all year round terminus of the Empire Service paradoxically moved to Foynes in Ireland and the Empire services terminated there, after arriving from Lisbon, Lagos (Nigeria) and all stations east to Fiji.
From then until 1945 only three commercial flying boats visited Britain maintaining the Foynes - Poole shuttle service. The BOAC facilities at Poole were then occupied by the two squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm Seaplane School flying the Fairey Swordfish and Fairey Seafox, later augmented by the Supermarine Walrus and Vought Kingfisher. These had to share Poole with R.A.A.F. Sunderlands 1942-3. They all moved out soon after R.A.F. Catalinas arrived in 1943. These were in turn replaced by R.A.F Sunderlands.
Despite having virtually vacated England for the duration, BOAC Empire Boats conducted combat operations as required. Empire boats still manned by their BOAC crews served with the RAF. Two were lost in action on successive days whilst attempting to establish an Early Warning radar station at Bodo in Norway during May 1940. Others based in the inlets around Islay (EGPA) patrolled the Scotland - Iceland gap using the very first airborne surface search radars to watch for any German warships, (such as the Bismarck), trying to break out into the Atlantic. One of these was lost without trace. They evacuated British, (i.e. New Zealand), troops from Crete to Alexandria under heavy fire in 1941. BOAC lost two more trying to maintain the service to Alexandria via Lisbon and Lagos and QANTAS lost three Empire boats to the Japanese in combat whilst trying to maintain their end of the Empire service.
The Empire terminus returned to Poole, from Foynes, in 1945 and did not move back to Southampton until 1948. Alexandria - Karachi Empire boat services had terminated in January 1947 and the services from Alexandria to Poole and Durban terminated in December. Thus the Empire boats did not survive to return to Southampton and had operated from there for less than three years. QANTAS retired their last Empire boats from Sydney - Fiji at the same time. The Empire boats had amassed 38 million miles of flying, much of it through Axis or Japanese air defences. The BOAC landplane hub then moved to Bournemouth Airport (EGHH), not London (EGWU) or Southampton (EGHI). The few surviving, but worn out, Empire boats were broken up during 1948.
The later Short Hythe, Sandringham and Solent boats which had replaced the Empire boats were mostly sold to Aquila Airways who took over the facilities at Poole around 1950 flying them from there until 1958. They never operated the earlier Empire boats though. This Aquila operation from Poole was the first time there had really been a commercial flying boat 'hub' in Britain. None of the Short boats flew internal services within Britain. Indeed they hardly ever flew over Britain. They were all Empire boats whatever they were called.
Small flying boats of Wal or Goose size do not really require 'bases' to operate from.
Apart from the airlines mentioned above, (and their precursors), the only other airlines with flying boat bases suitable for the support of big flying boats with three or more engines, prior to WW2, that I know about were;
1) Air Union, Air Orient and Air France who had flying boat bases throughout the French Empire.
2) Aero Espresso, SAM, SISA, SANA and Ala Littoria who had flying boat bases throughout the Italian Empire.
3) Nippon KKK, (later JAL), who had flying boat bases throughout the Japanese Empire.
4) Lufthansa owned and maintained the bases for the Lubeck - Copenhagen - Gothenburg - Oslo and Berlin - Stettin - Kalmar - Stockholm Dornier R four engined flying boat services from 1928. They certainly had other such bases in German Baltic ports served by their 3 engined Romars.
Aeroflot flew no boats larger than the Wal until WW2.
Pre war bases for the operation of large 3 and 4 engined seaplanes were of course maintained by German, Swiss, Scandinavian, Italian and South American airlines, but they were not flying boats.
Airline operation of all types of hydroplane has always been most closely associated with riverine services in South America. Even the later big four engined Short boats were serving many communities along the Plata, Parana, and Uraguay Rivers decades after they quit Southampton Water.
They finished their days flying services around the U.S. And British Virgin Islands.
Regards,
FSAviator
Here is additional info from FSAviator:
This is an attempt to answer some of the unanswered questions and add some extra detail.
There had of course been internal commercial flights by small flying boats and amphibians within the UK prior to 1937. British Marine Air Navigation operated a variety of single engined boats, all purchased from Supermarine, on scheduled, but irregular, services from the Woolston Supermarine slipway to the Channel Islands (EGJJ + EGJB) from just after World War One. Thus the first commercial services from Southampton Water departed Woolston. In 1924 BMAN was one of the airlines that merged to form Imperial Airways, so their first 'base' on Southampton Water was also at Woolston, but it was the terminus only for the Channel Islands flights. It had no immigration facilities.
The Woolston factory was hemmed in, and too small, to allow assembly of large aircraft under cover and so Supermarine subsequently purchased the larger site at Hythe around 1925. I believe the Imperial Airways Channel Island terminus moved there from Woolston soon after. Although the Short Calcutta did not serve the U.K., whilst the crews were training, in August 1928 a Calcutta made three publicity flights from Hythe to EGJJ + EGJB + LFRC. Several private owners also based their long range Supermarine flying boats at Hythe. Woolston is at the mouth of the River Itchen, the smaller river estuary on the east side of Southampton Water.
The Fairey factory, airfield, seaplane slipway and associated take off lane, all rented from the Royal Navy, were on the north side of the River Hamble (not Hambly) which is the larger river estuary on the east side of Southampton Water just south of Woolston on the Itchen. Hamble airfield passed to BOAC during WW2 and became their main training facility until the 1970s. It would have had the ICAO designator EGH*. EGHM rings a bell, but I cannot reliably remember what the final character was. By ICAO convention Z is substituted as the random character so you may wish to include Hamble as EGHZ unless you are able to determine the final character. The master aerodrome was Bournemouth (Hurn) Airport = EGHH. You can tell it is the master by the double ending. The other airfields round about e.g. EGHI = Southampton (Eastliegh) were its 'satellites' under the British system. You could 'signal' them via the master aerodrome when they were closed. EGSW is therefore near EGSS (London Stansted).
I believe any D/F facility relating to hydroplanes in that area would have been operated by the RAF until May 1939 and the Royal Navy thereafter. In either event from Lee on Solent since that was the peacetime site of the Fleet Air Arm Seaplane School, which among other things was teaching W/T, MFD/F and HFD/F via the relevant procedures. Having located EGUS any inbounds would proceed at low level to their local landing lane. EGHH and EGHI may have had D/F for landplanes by 1937. D/F would also have been installed at Hamble during WW2.
An NDB (FAW) was soon located at Fawley on the west bank about a mile south of Hythe. Since it is very likely that this was originally sited for use by RAF Coastal Command (RAF Calshot) it may have been in place by 1937. The Empire boats would have had ADF for war service from 1940 and probably earlier. Imperial Airways is unlikely to have been involved in providing ATC services within the UK. They were more than adequate. It may have done so in far flung locations.
Imperial Airways never operated Sikorsky boats. Few of these were sold outside the US and its dependencies. I doubt that a Sikorsky boat has ever visited Northern Europe. The Empires were the first flying boats to provide scheduled services into the UK from an international destination. Along the Empire routes they were preceded a decade earlier by the Short Calcutta and Short Kent. The Short S.17 Kent was also built as a landplane (Short L.17 Scylla / Syrinx). From 1934 these flew from Croydon to LFPB, EBBR, LFSB and LSZH. Syrinx was re-engined with the engines from an Empire boat.
Whilst Supermarine now had a large factory at Hythe, Shorts at Rochester (EGTR) on the River Medway had a fairly small factory in which they manufactured the components for their large flying boats, but then assembled them in cradles in the boat yard, in the manner of real boats. When they were asked to turn the Kent into the Scylla / Syrinx landplane in 1934 they had to build a boat cradle on the grass airfield at Rochester and also assemble these large landplanes outside as though in a boatyard. This prompted them to construct a bigger factory so that the Empire boats could be assembled inside from 1936. Empires were nevertheless mostly maintained in the open after delivery.
Along with the Armstrong Whitworth Atlanta all these aircraft have been made available for FS9 by Jens Kristensen. Nice to see you posting here Jens. Thank you for taking the time to make these vintage British airliners available. Are you still seeking cockpit and panel photos for the Atlanta? Do you have any further propliner projects in the pipe line?
The Short Calcutta did not serve Britain. It was however built under licence by Breguet. Air Union had five. Their main Calcutta route seems to have been Marseilles - Ajaccio - Tunis. Only Imperial Airways used the Short Kent.
The map posted shows the Empire routes at about the time the Armstrong Whitworth Atlantas moved from Africa to India. The original Short Calcutta service from April 1929 was Genoa - Rome - Naples - Corfu - Athens - Suda Bay - Tobruk - Alexandria. Later it continued to Khartoum and at times Brindisi and Salonika substituted for stops above. Assorted Italian airlines would have been operating from the same hydroplane 'bases'. From late 1929 the Calcuttas began the process of replacing landplanes east of Egypt flying Athens - Haifa - Galilee - Baghdad. They gave way to Short Kents on the run up from Athens through Italy in 1932 and the Calcuttas then flew Khartoum - Kisumu instead. Neither the Calcutta nor the Kent got closer to Britain than Genoa. The Atlantas (four engined landplanes) linked Karachi to Sydney after being withdrawn from Africa.
Empire boats started to replace the Kents on the Athens to Genoa service in October 1936. Services from Alexandria all the way through to Hythe began in February 1937 and the Empire boats began to work all the way to Sydney at the same time. The Bermuda - New York service began in May and the first proving flight Hythe - Foynes - Botwood - Montreal - New York was made in July. They were working all the way down to Durban by June. There were 31 Short S.23 Empire boats in more than one 'version'.
The eight S.30s were in reality a different aircraft with very different (sleeve valve) engines and of course in flight refuelling. Non stop services from Hythe to Montreal with these began August 1939. The Harrow tankers were based in Shannon (EINN) and Gander (CYQX) with linear towlines starting more or less overhead. They could have maintained a non stop service through the winter but war intervened almost immediately and they were soon badly needed elsewhere. However the establishment of a through route from Sydney to Montreal via India and Europe with a single type of aircraft all the way made August 1939 a very important milestone in airline history.
The two S.33 Empires were similar but always operated at 53,000lbs. From May 1940 seventeen of the Empires were flying the horseshoe route from South Africa to New Zealand through India. The rest were flying Lagos - Lisbon - Foynes - Poole. From October 1941 to March 1942 the situation in Africa was such that they had to risk flying Foynes - Lisbon - Gibraltar - Malta - Alexandria through the Axis air defence zones across the Mediterranean. All the boats flew at 52,500lbs in war service including the S.23s whose max certificated gross was 40,500lbs. The Empire boats had short and dangerous lives.
FSAviator
Here is more info from FSAviator on the Sikorsky boat:
Thanks for posting that web link. I am surprised that photo of an S-42B at Hythe does not turn up in the well known Pan Am histories. I had never seen it before.
You are right. PAA flew three proving flights to Hythe during July and August of 1937 using a Sikorsky S-42B. Two flights 'proved' the proposed summer route which was Port Washington - Shediac - Botwood - Foynes - Hythe whilst one proved the proposed winter route which was Port Washington - Bermuda - Azores - Lisbon - Marseilles - Hythe. No payload on the proving flights of course. Imperial Airways Empire Boats proved the northern route to Montreal departing at exactly the same time in the opposite direction by mutual agreement.
The necessary D/F facilities and weather stations for regular operation did not exist until later and there were various political issues to overcome before commercial services could start. Portugal granted PAA a route licence in February 1939, Ireland in March, Britain in June and France in July. PAA had Boeing 314s by then and the old Sikorsky boats did not appear at Hythe again.
Germany was able to persuade Iceland and Denmark to withhold licences from all parties so the US government withheld permission for the Lufhansa Berlin direct New York landplane service proved in 1938.
One European airline considered purchasing a Sikorsky boat. That was DNL in Norway. The option was conditional on obtaining a trans-Atlantic licence from Denmark and Britain and this was withheld by both parties.
Regards,
FSAviator
I don't make much use of flying boats in MSFS, but I thought I would offer the following concerning Short Empire Boats and the significance of Southampton Water.
British flying boats were boats. They were built in the open on slipways, not in factories, they anchored in the open, and they were usually maintained in the open. A typical British 'flying boat base' was a shed by a small dock alongside which was a motor launch. At some locations the 'shed' was a houseboat.
The flying boats rarely berthed. Thin aluminium hulls and docks do not mix well in a swell and the commercial berths were apt to be in locations where 'propwash' was a continuous problem. It was labour intensive to berth a boat backwards and the process of pushing it into place with a passenger launch imposed various damage risks.
Usually, if the water was choppy, the flying boat was moored to a nearby buoy inside the harbour instead. If the weather was good the boat might be moored to a buoy out by the take off lane, which might be miles away, and outside the harbour. The Imperial Airways berths at Southampton were usually occupied by their motor launches.
However the marketing department of all flying boat airlines liked to give the impression that passengers could alight directly onto a dock without a journey of perhaps several miles across choppy water in a small motor launch. Thus official publicity photos tend to show the boat berthed, or moored very nearby the 'dock'. The paucity of passenger photos showing the same situation is testament to the fact that the boats were usually moored at a buoy and with the film of the day it was difficult to take good photos from a rolling and pitching launch.
The whole point of Imperial flying boats was that, except in just a few locations around the Empire, there were no expensive 'facilities' to maintain. Somewhere in the busy harbour was a fuel farm belonging to an oil company, not the airline. The oil company loaded their motor launch with drums of AVGAS and a hand pump and fuelled the boat at the buoy when asked. The passengers were whisked to and from their five star hotel, or residence, by coach or limousine. The last thing they wanted was for someone to invent the airline terminal and the check in desk. A 'base' would have a small slipway so that each boat could be hauled out of the water for hull inspection once a month. From 1939 at a really major 'base' there might be a hangar too.
Imperial Airways and later BOAC served the Empire. British subjects outnumbered American citizens four to one. The Empire was a long, long, way away from Britain. Originally all Imperial Airways flying boats were based in the port of Alexandria, at the head of the Suez Canal. The hub of Empire. From there they linked Italy to Egypt via Greece.
Passengers from Britain travelled to Italy by train. Imperial Airways landplanes carried passengers on from Egypt to North West India (now Pakistan) and the African colonies, continuing to South Africa. Later there was also a flying boat base on the Nile at Khartoum and after the arrival of the Empire boats they continued all the way from Italy to Durban. Eventually Imperial Airways obtained a licence from the Italian Government to fly landplanes to Italy from England. The introduction of the Empire boat in 1937 also allowed the flying boat service to continue east to Karachi, augmenting existing landplane services.
However more to the point it was also the introduction of the Empire boat in 1937 that allowed Imperial Airways flying boats to actually visit Britain for the first time, augmenting the landplane service from Italy. At first the new western terminus of the Empire route was in Southampton Water (southwest of EGHI).
Originally the 'base' was at Hythe, but this anchorage was very exposed and so the (motor launch) berths and bad weather mooring buoys soon moved to the port itself. Even so the waterway where the take off lanes were situated was very exposed, and it was also the busiest shipping lane in the world at the time. Consequently a 'base' was also established at the Yacht club inside Poole Harbour, which is the large, well sheltered, harbour southwest of Bournemouth (EGHH). In poor weather before WW2 the Poole terminus was used in lieu of Hythe/Southampton.
From 1938 one Imperial Airways Empire Boat was based in Durban. The Empire route from Pakistan to Australia was then taken over by QANTAS, using their Empire boats based at Rose Bay (Sydney), where there was a significant terminal and hangar facility. QANTAS flew the Empire service all the way from Karachi to Fiji, the latter being an important strategic destination from December 1941 onwards. Tasman Empire Airways used their Empire boats to extend the Empire service from Sydney to Auckland.
From WW1 until WW2 one of the largest R.A.F. flying boat bases was at the southern end of Southampton Water to the north of the Calshot Spit at the west entrance. This was the famous venue for the Schneider Trophy seaplane races and as such it is available as freeware period scenery for FS9. Several hydroplane manufactures had slipways along Southampton Water. Fairey and Supermarine for instance. Until May 1940 the Fleet Air Arm Seaplane School was based at Lee on Solent opposite RAF Calshot on the east bank. Saunders and Roe had their slipway on the Isle of Wight, on the other side of the Solent.
Empire boat operations from Southampton Water included the pioneering in flight refuelling sorties conducted by Flight Refuelling Ltd (now Cobham Aviation). The Mercury-Maia composite also flew from there and from 1938 until the invasion of France Mercury flew scheduled, airmail only, night services from Southampton Water to Alexandria. Mercury then joined the remnants of the Royal Dutch Air Force flying from the port of Felixstowe as 320 Sqn RAF. They used Mercury as a crew trainer, though strictly speaking Mercury was not an Empire boat. Maia remained at Southampton and was finally strafed to destruction in 1942.
Hythe, Southampton and Poole were just one far flung end of an Empire bus stop route whose other ends were in Durban and Fiji. The hubs of the Empire (Boat) services were always at Alexandria, Karachi and Sydney.
Imperial Airways had only a marginal interest in serving the U.S. since it was no longer a British colony, but from 1937 to 1939 they did base an Empire boat in the British offshore banking centre of Bermuda. From there it provided a twice weekly scheduled service to New York harbour, patronised mostly by wealthy Americans with an interest in banking their dollars in British banks where the IRS could not follow. The Imperial Airways flying boat base in this tiny outpost of Empire was an exception in that it was as plush as any built by PAA, who naturally had reciprocal rights on this international route.
Imperial Airways did have a remit to serve the millions of British subjects in the Dominion of Canada and to that end, following introduction of the Empire boat had reached an agreement with the Republic of Ireland to operate services to Canada from a large shed near Foynes on the river Shannon. After refuelling at Botwood in Canada the new western end of Empire route was Montreal. Some Montreal services continued to New York harbour.
The reciprocal PAA Boeing Clipper flying boat services operated briefly to Britain from New York, via Botwood and Foynes, in the summer of 1939 also terminated at Southampton Water. PAA made about fifteen visits, carrying a total of about 250 passengers, before abandoning services to the U.K. until well after WW2 when suitable landplanes were available.
Of course no commercial flying boat could ever cross the Atlantic via a northern route in Winter. The landing lanes in Botwood Bay were frozen. All flying boat services across the North Atlantic were summer only. The most northerly flying boat refuelling station in winter was in the Azores, in the Central Atlantic.
Imperial Airways was forcibly merged with British Airways and other airlines to become BOAC when war broke out. The Empire boat service to Montreal was temporarily suspended at the end of September 1939. It resumed briefly during the summer of 1940 and some services still continued to New York harbour. By the end of that summer all the BOAC North Atlantic services were landplane services as the Empire boats were needed further east.
When Germany invaded France in May 1940 the bombing and strafing of Southampton and Poole soon began. They were a short hop from the new Luftwaffe bases in Normandy. Consequently within two years of being established at Poole the 'British' all year round terminus of the Empire Service paradoxically moved to Foynes in Ireland and the Empire services terminated there, after arriving from Lisbon, Lagos (Nigeria) and all stations east to Fiji.
From then until 1945 only three commercial flying boats visited Britain maintaining the Foynes - Poole shuttle service. The BOAC facilities at Poole were then occupied by the two squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm Seaplane School flying the Fairey Swordfish and Fairey Seafox, later augmented by the Supermarine Walrus and Vought Kingfisher. These had to share Poole with R.A.A.F. Sunderlands 1942-3. They all moved out soon after R.A.F. Catalinas arrived in 1943. These were in turn replaced by R.A.F Sunderlands.
Despite having virtually vacated England for the duration, BOAC Empire Boats conducted combat operations as required. Empire boats still manned by their BOAC crews served with the RAF. Two were lost in action on successive days whilst attempting to establish an Early Warning radar station at Bodo in Norway during May 1940. Others based in the inlets around Islay (EGPA) patrolled the Scotland - Iceland gap using the very first airborne surface search radars to watch for any German warships, (such as the Bismarck), trying to break out into the Atlantic. One of these was lost without trace. They evacuated British, (i.e. New Zealand), troops from Crete to Alexandria under heavy fire in 1941. BOAC lost two more trying to maintain the service to Alexandria via Lisbon and Lagos and QANTAS lost three Empire boats to the Japanese in combat whilst trying to maintain their end of the Empire service.
The Empire terminus returned to Poole, from Foynes, in 1945 and did not move back to Southampton until 1948. Alexandria - Karachi Empire boat services had terminated in January 1947 and the services from Alexandria to Poole and Durban terminated in December. Thus the Empire boats did not survive to return to Southampton and had operated from there for less than three years. QANTAS retired their last Empire boats from Sydney - Fiji at the same time. The Empire boats had amassed 38 million miles of flying, much of it through Axis or Japanese air defences. The BOAC landplane hub then moved to Bournemouth Airport (EGHH), not London (EGWU) or Southampton (EGHI). The few surviving, but worn out, Empire boats were broken up during 1948.
The later Short Hythe, Sandringham and Solent boats which had replaced the Empire boats were mostly sold to Aquila Airways who took over the facilities at Poole around 1950 flying them from there until 1958. They never operated the earlier Empire boats though. This Aquila operation from Poole was the first time there had really been a commercial flying boat 'hub' in Britain. None of the Short boats flew internal services within Britain. Indeed they hardly ever flew over Britain. They were all Empire boats whatever they were called.
Small flying boats of Wal or Goose size do not really require 'bases' to operate from.
Apart from the airlines mentioned above, (and their precursors), the only other airlines with flying boat bases suitable for the support of big flying boats with three or more engines, prior to WW2, that I know about were;
1) Air Union, Air Orient and Air France who had flying boat bases throughout the French Empire.
2) Aero Espresso, SAM, SISA, SANA and Ala Littoria who had flying boat bases throughout the Italian Empire.
3) Nippon KKK, (later JAL), who had flying boat bases throughout the Japanese Empire.
4) Lufthansa owned and maintained the bases for the Lubeck - Copenhagen - Gothenburg - Oslo and Berlin - Stettin - Kalmar - Stockholm Dornier R four engined flying boat services from 1928. They certainly had other such bases in German Baltic ports served by their 3 engined Romars.
Aeroflot flew no boats larger than the Wal until WW2.
Pre war bases for the operation of large 3 and 4 engined seaplanes were of course maintained by German, Swiss, Scandinavian, Italian and South American airlines, but they were not flying boats.
Airline operation of all types of hydroplane has always been most closely associated with riverine services in South America. Even the later big four engined Short boats were serving many communities along the Plata, Parana, and Uraguay Rivers decades after they quit Southampton Water.
They finished their days flying services around the U.S. And British Virgin Islands.
Regards,
FSAviator
Here is additional info from FSAviator:
This is an attempt to answer some of the unanswered questions and add some extra detail.
There had of course been internal commercial flights by small flying boats and amphibians within the UK prior to 1937. British Marine Air Navigation operated a variety of single engined boats, all purchased from Supermarine, on scheduled, but irregular, services from the Woolston Supermarine slipway to the Channel Islands (EGJJ + EGJB) from just after World War One. Thus the first commercial services from Southampton Water departed Woolston. In 1924 BMAN was one of the airlines that merged to form Imperial Airways, so their first 'base' on Southampton Water was also at Woolston, but it was the terminus only for the Channel Islands flights. It had no immigration facilities.
The Woolston factory was hemmed in, and too small, to allow assembly of large aircraft under cover and so Supermarine subsequently purchased the larger site at Hythe around 1925. I believe the Imperial Airways Channel Island terminus moved there from Woolston soon after. Although the Short Calcutta did not serve the U.K., whilst the crews were training, in August 1928 a Calcutta made three publicity flights from Hythe to EGJJ + EGJB + LFRC. Several private owners also based their long range Supermarine flying boats at Hythe. Woolston is at the mouth of the River Itchen, the smaller river estuary on the east side of Southampton Water.
The Fairey factory, airfield, seaplane slipway and associated take off lane, all rented from the Royal Navy, were on the north side of the River Hamble (not Hambly) which is the larger river estuary on the east side of Southampton Water just south of Woolston on the Itchen. Hamble airfield passed to BOAC during WW2 and became their main training facility until the 1970s. It would have had the ICAO designator EGH*. EGHM rings a bell, but I cannot reliably remember what the final character was. By ICAO convention Z is substituted as the random character so you may wish to include Hamble as EGHZ unless you are able to determine the final character. The master aerodrome was Bournemouth (Hurn) Airport = EGHH. You can tell it is the master by the double ending. The other airfields round about e.g. EGHI = Southampton (Eastliegh) were its 'satellites' under the British system. You could 'signal' them via the master aerodrome when they were closed. EGSW is therefore near EGSS (London Stansted).
I believe any D/F facility relating to hydroplanes in that area would have been operated by the RAF until May 1939 and the Royal Navy thereafter. In either event from Lee on Solent since that was the peacetime site of the Fleet Air Arm Seaplane School, which among other things was teaching W/T, MFD/F and HFD/F via the relevant procedures. Having located EGUS any inbounds would proceed at low level to their local landing lane. EGHH and EGHI may have had D/F for landplanes by 1937. D/F would also have been installed at Hamble during WW2.
An NDB (FAW) was soon located at Fawley on the west bank about a mile south of Hythe. Since it is very likely that this was originally sited for use by RAF Coastal Command (RAF Calshot) it may have been in place by 1937. The Empire boats would have had ADF for war service from 1940 and probably earlier. Imperial Airways is unlikely to have been involved in providing ATC services within the UK. They were more than adequate. It may have done so in far flung locations.
Imperial Airways never operated Sikorsky boats. Few of these were sold outside the US and its dependencies. I doubt that a Sikorsky boat has ever visited Northern Europe. The Empires were the first flying boats to provide scheduled services into the UK from an international destination. Along the Empire routes they were preceded a decade earlier by the Short Calcutta and Short Kent. The Short S.17 Kent was also built as a landplane (Short L.17 Scylla / Syrinx). From 1934 these flew from Croydon to LFPB, EBBR, LFSB and LSZH. Syrinx was re-engined with the engines from an Empire boat.
Whilst Supermarine now had a large factory at Hythe, Shorts at Rochester (EGTR) on the River Medway had a fairly small factory in which they manufactured the components for their large flying boats, but then assembled them in cradles in the boat yard, in the manner of real boats. When they were asked to turn the Kent into the Scylla / Syrinx landplane in 1934 they had to build a boat cradle on the grass airfield at Rochester and also assemble these large landplanes outside as though in a boatyard. This prompted them to construct a bigger factory so that the Empire boats could be assembled inside from 1936. Empires were nevertheless mostly maintained in the open after delivery.
Along with the Armstrong Whitworth Atlanta all these aircraft have been made available for FS9 by Jens Kristensen. Nice to see you posting here Jens. Thank you for taking the time to make these vintage British airliners available. Are you still seeking cockpit and panel photos for the Atlanta? Do you have any further propliner projects in the pipe line?
The Short Calcutta did not serve Britain. It was however built under licence by Breguet. Air Union had five. Their main Calcutta route seems to have been Marseilles - Ajaccio - Tunis. Only Imperial Airways used the Short Kent.
The map posted shows the Empire routes at about the time the Armstrong Whitworth Atlantas moved from Africa to India. The original Short Calcutta service from April 1929 was Genoa - Rome - Naples - Corfu - Athens - Suda Bay - Tobruk - Alexandria. Later it continued to Khartoum and at times Brindisi and Salonika substituted for stops above. Assorted Italian airlines would have been operating from the same hydroplane 'bases'. From late 1929 the Calcuttas began the process of replacing landplanes east of Egypt flying Athens - Haifa - Galilee - Baghdad. They gave way to Short Kents on the run up from Athens through Italy in 1932 and the Calcuttas then flew Khartoum - Kisumu instead. Neither the Calcutta nor the Kent got closer to Britain than Genoa. The Atlantas (four engined landplanes) linked Karachi to Sydney after being withdrawn from Africa.
Empire boats started to replace the Kents on the Athens to Genoa service in October 1936. Services from Alexandria all the way through to Hythe began in February 1937 and the Empire boats began to work all the way to Sydney at the same time. The Bermuda - New York service began in May and the first proving flight Hythe - Foynes - Botwood - Montreal - New York was made in July. They were working all the way down to Durban by June. There were 31 Short S.23 Empire boats in more than one 'version'.
The eight S.30s were in reality a different aircraft with very different (sleeve valve) engines and of course in flight refuelling. Non stop services from Hythe to Montreal with these began August 1939. The Harrow tankers were based in Shannon (EINN) and Gander (CYQX) with linear towlines starting more or less overhead. They could have maintained a non stop service through the winter but war intervened almost immediately and they were soon badly needed elsewhere. However the establishment of a through route from Sydney to Montreal via India and Europe with a single type of aircraft all the way made August 1939 a very important milestone in airline history.
The two S.33 Empires were similar but always operated at 53,000lbs. From May 1940 seventeen of the Empires were flying the horseshoe route from South Africa to New Zealand through India. The rest were flying Lagos - Lisbon - Foynes - Poole. From October 1941 to March 1942 the situation in Africa was such that they had to risk flying Foynes - Lisbon - Gibraltar - Malta - Alexandria through the Axis air defence zones across the Mediterranean. All the boats flew at 52,500lbs in war service including the S.23s whose max certificated gross was 40,500lbs. The Empire boats had short and dangerous lives.
FSAviator
Here is more info from FSAviator on the Sikorsky boat:
Thanks for posting that web link. I am surprised that photo of an S-42B at Hythe does not turn up in the well known Pan Am histories. I had never seen it before.
You are right. PAA flew three proving flights to Hythe during July and August of 1937 using a Sikorsky S-42B. Two flights 'proved' the proposed summer route which was Port Washington - Shediac - Botwood - Foynes - Hythe whilst one proved the proposed winter route which was Port Washington - Bermuda - Azores - Lisbon - Marseilles - Hythe. No payload on the proving flights of course. Imperial Airways Empire Boats proved the northern route to Montreal departing at exactly the same time in the opposite direction by mutual agreement.
The necessary D/F facilities and weather stations for regular operation did not exist until later and there were various political issues to overcome before commercial services could start. Portugal granted PAA a route licence in February 1939, Ireland in March, Britain in June and France in July. PAA had Boeing 314s by then and the old Sikorsky boats did not appear at Hythe again.
Germany was able to persuade Iceland and Denmark to withhold licences from all parties so the US government withheld permission for the Lufhansa Berlin direct New York landplane service proved in 1938.
One European airline considered purchasing a Sikorsky boat. That was DNL in Norway. The option was conditional on obtaining a trans-Atlantic licence from Denmark and Britain and this was withheld by both parties.
Regards,
FSAviator