ELECTRA-Flying

[aerofoto]

the engines idle quite high. If I release the brakes with the throttles all the way back, the aircraft immediately begins moving. The slightest increase in throttle causes a considerable increase in speed. Even at idle I need to constantly be applying brakes to maintain a realistic taxi speed.

I´ve seen precisely that particular issue too (using each of the 4 panels I´ve opted to trial) .... so .... I think it´s definitely something FDE based and isn´t likely to be caused by your controller device sensitivites.

The ALLISON turboprop engines do run at a constant 100% RPM .... that´s normal .... but .... this could be "part of" the problem within this simulation "IF" the engine/thrust related FDE data isn´t compiled correctly .... and which may well be the case.

I also thought it was "a little overpowered inflight" (but not too bad) .... and needed a little Drag inducing influence in order to tame it .... as well as a bit Flap Lift Scaler editing influence too in order to try´n coax "the right nose/pitch attitude during approach" to landing.

These latter details I´ve managed to address .... WELL .... "sort of" .... since I´m still experimenting with it/analysing things .... when I get the time to do so.

Despite these little discrepencies it´s still a nice similation though .... and with potential to be made into something even "NICER STILL" .... with a little FDE work here´n´there .... and possibly aided also by athe alternative ALLISON turboprop soundpack which I keep talking about

Mark C
BOG/CO

[mdeval]

I DO like the sounds it comes with a bit better that the Allison sounds I've heard before. If you say the sounds you're working on are even better, can't wait.
Any timeline on the panels ?

Mike

[aerofoto]

No time frame .... at this time .... unfortunately

My HJG development work has to take priority

Mark C
BOG/CO

[mdeval]

Those panels are gor-geous.

[Tom/CalClassic]

Hi,

This is pretty common with turboprops. This can be minimized by bringing the prop pitch lever all the way to full coarse (or Cntl-F1). Don't forget to bring them back to full fine before takeoff (Cntl-F4).

I ran out of time today and will not be able to upload Frank's liveries this weekend. Hopefully they will get uploaded early next week.

Sorry,

[aerofoto]

They say .... "great minds think alike"

It´s funny what can run through ones mind when/if one awakens (for any reason during the early hours of the morning .... bed tim can be a great "THINK TANK") .... because what Tom has just mentioned (about propeller pitch) is "precisely what dawned on me" at around 02:30 this morning

I´ll give it that a try (I was going to anyway) shortly .... and report back

Mark C
BOG/CO

[aerofoto]

Tom´s "RIGHT" team .... and no surprises there because he "DOES" know his stuff

This LG L-188 simulations tendancy to want to taxi, and even run away completely, at ground idle "CAN" be drastically curbed by reducing the prop pitch (CTRL + F1) .... even to its minimum detente.

If braking are then applied (but not locked "ON") to bring this simulation to a halt .... then .... this seems to ensure the simulation "remains stationary" on the ground .... even with the brakes "OFF .... at least that´s what I´m seeing this morning

If a "wee bit" of power is then applied .... and whilst the props still remain set at a reduced, or even minimum, pitch detente .... then simulation will commence a "very slow" but controlled taxi .... but won´t accelerate and run away as was earlier reported.

As Tom advises .... all one then needs to do is ensure the prop trim is reset for T/O .... or things could potentially get a bit intersting after T/O

I suspect this´s probably the best that can be achieved using this L-188 simulation "in it´s current FDE form".

I think the FDE based engine related data for turboprops is, or should be, different from that of jet aircraft types in FS .... and which I´m more familiar with. This data, currently compiled into the FDE for this particular L-188 simulation, might still want some further "very minor tweaking" .... but otherwise, and as I mentioned earlier within this thread, it´s still a "VERY ENJOYABLE" simulation as-is, and one with potential to be made into something "REALLY NICE" .... I feel

I hope to be able to talk directly with Lbardo about some of thee details .... in the very near future .... "crusado los dedos/fingers crossed"

Mark C
BOG/CO

[Tom/CalClassic]

Well, I did find time to upload the NWA and 2 EAL Electra liveries this morning. So they should be available at flightsim.com shortly.

BTW, I have also updated the CalClassic L-188 Electra Base Pack, adding the L-188A and L-188C using the Libardo Guzman model.

Hope this helps,

[herkpilot]

There's a simple solution to the idle issue, select "low speed ground idle" which reduces the rpm to about 67% by opening the engine bleed valves. WARNING: going into ground range (HI or low) in flight will cause engine flame out and complete loss of propeller control and possibly acft control.

A quick description: The Allison T56/501 is a constant speed engine running at 100% (13,580 rpm). The Propeller runs at about 1040 rpm. There are two operating modes, ground and flight. In ground range (hi or low) fuel flow and rpm are controlled through the fuel control/prop coordinator. In the flight range, the prop acts as a governor always maintaining 100% rpm and the fuel control varies the torque (HP). There is NO cockpit control of pitch. The condition levers offer only four positions: Air Start, Run, Ground Stop and feather.

I have many thousands of actual hours with the Allisons, and have tried every FS model ever attempted for this engine. Only two ever made the cut, accurately operating as an Allison does in real life.

The Cal Classic CV580 by Greg Pepper, while an older simulation, is extremely realistic, and still the benchmark. It does everything correctly. Hi and low idle, ground and flight range on the power levers, constant rpm, and variable torque (HP).

The one Electra panel not mentioned so far is Frazier McKays which also operates as per real life. It does all the above and includes a NTS (negative torque system) function which prevents the prop from driving the engine.

Both simulations are deficient one aspect, and that is deceleration. Retarding the power to minimum flight idle, the big flat prop blades act as a speed brake, rapidly shedding airspeed, almost like popping a drag chute. So far I have not found model that can realistically simulate this.

Fly the CC CV 580 to understand the engine dynamics of the Allison. Greg got it right. Any Allison simulation that doesn't operate like the 580 is just wrong.

Hy

[Erik]

Another fine topic, great read, thanks all.

herkpilot said:

Both simulations are deficient one aspect, and that is deceleration. Retarding the power to minimum flight idle, the big flat prop blades act as a speed brake, rapidly shedding airspeed, almost like popping a drag chute.

Couple of years ago, an Air Spray pilot at Red Deer, Alberta, told me for this reason you can land the L-188 straight-in on any airfield you can see over the nose in level flight, from any altitude and speed. Great asset when diving over a ridge to fight a fire - which is what they do.

Erik

[Tom/CalClassic]

Hi,

One minor point. While a Greg did the model (and I helped with version 2), FSAviator did the flight dynamics and a whole team of people did the panel and testing. It did turn out great.

And FSAviator did build the braking action when you idle the engines. The speed comes right down. It's also included in the F-27.

Take care,

[Pixel Pilot]

Thanks Tom for the upload. Now it's time to see what's going on in Miami.

Ed

[herkpilot]

Hi Tom

Kudos to the whole team! I certainly did not intentionally leave out the other team members who helped in the development of the marvelous CV 580. I knew there were many others, but Gregs name is on the face of the file and I just didn't look deep enough to find the others.

In spite of its age, the Cal Classic CV 580 is still the benchmark for Allison 501/T56 operating realism. No one has ever done it better!

Thanks again to all of you for my many years (and FS hours) of enjoyment.


Hy

[dc6tryer]

Hi,
I downloaded one of Frank Gonzales' textures for the L-188 and read that the same texture (Northwest 1961) suits both Libardo Guzman's aircraft and your very own Electra! I have been d/loading various models of the Electra and have got in a right muddle over the last year or so.
Can I add a texture set to a differently named sim by just altering the name on the sim line in the aircraft cfg?

Cheers to all,
Andy.

[Tom/CalClassic]

Texture folders are chosen by the texture= line in the aircraft.cfg file. If the texture folder name is texture, then the line should read texture=. If it is something like texture.western, then the line should read texture=western.

Note that texture sets are not interchangeable between aircraft of different authors (that's why I offer all 3 in my Base Pack).