MSFLIGHT, news is out

[capflyer]

Jan 14, 2012 15:28:54 GMT -5 propspinner said:

Hi guys,
The only time I fly by my mouse only is when I have the autopilot on. ;D

Same here, but "Mouse as Yoke" has been a feature of FS since at least FS5, so that's nothing new and I fail to see how this hurts the program that they're simply marketing it now as a feature instead of one of those "by the way" items as it was in the past.

[zswobbie1]

Guys stay coool.. I have not seen so much outrage, betrayal, etc over a GAME. Guys get a life.
I think that one of the most positive things is that a lot of payware developers are not going to support Flight. Does this mean that we will see a lot of new releases for FSX & FS9.

Could they have been holding back development until they have seen what Flight is all about?

Famous last words... It's ONLY a game.... Both freeware & payware developers have given us the tools to make things as virtually realistic as we want it to be.

[ashaman]

Jan 15, 2012 2:16:57 GMT -5 capflyer said:

Or they could just sit there and laugh their way all the way to the release because of all the ignorant speculation occurring and then wait for everyone to eat crow just as many have with FSX.

No doubt some of the more "new gizmo at ALL COST" will fall for it, but really, these people are the game-oriented ones. Those who really couldn't give a beep about simulation as long they have their fix of "new thing" to show to their friends to play cool.

As long we're talking about someone searching for a SIMULATOR, the "crow" should REALLY be eaten by few, because Flight starts up WAY lower than FSX ever did. One should REALLY be desperate to take Flight as a simulator, seen what M$ has done with it.

Then maybe history will contradict me and a lot of people will flock under Flight in spite of its uselessness simulation-wise... who knows... a lot of people has way more money than they ever had sense...

[Tom/CalClassic]

I think that Flight will have a following, even in the "simulator community". It will certainly be very limited at first (i.e. flying low and slow VFR in the Hawaiian Islands), but for people who want to do that it will be the best simulator available.

Bill Leaming has already hinted that other parts of FS9/FSX may be added as payware modules. This could include ATC, AI aircraft, or other things so dear to the hearts of current simmers. He has also mentioned that the aerobatic flight dynamics are better than any previous sim.

As for third party developers, that is certainly not clear at this point. What we do know is that a couple of developers were contacted about doing scenery and aircraft for Flight (PMDG and ORBX) but the terms of the arrangement were not acceptable to them and MS cut them off from further interaction. But other developers may have taken MS up on their offer and are feverishly working on Flight addons as we speak (and under a total NDA). This may be under their own name, or offered by MS under the Microsoft label, that's unknown.

[sunny9850]

I always laugh when folks get all outraged and have their blood pressure boil over something they have not actually put their own mits on yet.
It sure does not look like something that will replace FS9 or FSX for most of us around here, but that is based on incomplete previews and forum posts. We will see when it is released what it really is.

I vividly remember the outrage when Porsche announced that the iconic 911 would have a water cooled engine. You would have thought they had announced their plan to burn down Zuffenhausen as a whole.
It turned out that it does work quite splendidly and almost all the fear mongering and so called informed commenters had it all wrong.

And just as with the 911 nobody around here is being forced to do anything with the new kid on the block.

Cheers
Stefan

[mrcapitalism]

There was a video posted on youtube some time ago, and it did look like there were noticeable improvements to the flight model (smoother motion, wing dropping and spin entry in a stall). Although I think A2A have probably already created vastly superior aerodynamics using SimConnect, these improvements will be of great benefit to other/freeware aircraft. SimConnect is probably the best thing to have come out of FSX, especially now that a few companies are seriously using it.

Regarding the lack of 3rd party support for 'Flight,' the thought occurred that these limitations will probably be circumvented within 10 minutes of wide release :-) And surely a payware company will (hopefully) quickly create a SDK for developers.

I could be wrong, but the first versions of Flight Simulator probably were not intended to be modified with 3rd party scenery/aircraft.

[ashaman]

That comparison does not make sense, Stefan. And what there's more to know about this train wreck they call Flight? You can download it and use it as long you keep in mind that global warming has made all the planet's dry lands, beside Hawaii that magically remained buoying, sunk under the oceans like in that old Japanese Anime... what was its name again... Future Boy Conan, I think it was... though there it was because of a nuclear holocaust if I recall correctly.

Anyway... you want more dry lands?

PAY.

They stepped back to FS1, that's what they did. Of course the graphics and sounds are quite better, but the rest...

You want a simple, default style plane?

PAY.

You want to sneeze?

PAY.

You want to use a freeware whatever?

Sorry, we do not endorse freeware. We're not here to give you a service but only to make money. YOUR money, to be more precise. The more, the better. FOR US, of course.

This commendable outlook will make so that any and every plane made for FSX, even the simpler ones, will not be usable under Flight either. Eh, it would cut into their income. NO WAY they'll make that happen.

Please. I'm not in the business of being used as a cow to be milked by people who never bothered to hear my point. If you (and I'm using the "you" in the broader sense, not talking of no one in particular on this forum) are willing to become a cash cow, that's YOUR problem, not mine.



PS
And let's say one of us would like to pilot a Connie under Flight... and because this person is obviously on crack, he is even willing to pay for it... will they at M$ even try to listen to him or will only put out the plane models the GAMERS want the most (even if paid for it, too much work is just too much work. They do have other things to do, after all... like for example playing golf)?

And if for absurd M$'s made a Connie... will that anonymous pilot, in light of the FAMOUS quality of M$ planes, be satisfied of what he paid to have in the end, or will he come to regret -- I don't say the Connie you can find here, that it'd be too much -- MIKE STONE's Connie, even?

Rhetorical questions, people. Rhetorical questions.

[capflyer]

I want to fly a Connie in FSX but I don't have FSX, what do I have to do?

PAY

The argument really getting old guys. You paid for FSX, why is it that now half the danged community has lost their minds and is complaining that they're only getting Maui and at minimum a couple of airplanes for FREE. That's right, FREE, GRATIS, NA DA. Do people complain about Rise of Flight? Nope, and it uses the EXACT SAME revenue model now.

I will complain if I can't get the basic world and a complement of aircraft similar to what I have with the default FSX for about the same price as I paid for FSX & Acceleration ($70US), but since they haven't announced the pay structure or initial DLC offerings, how do we know that they aren't on the same track already?

[sunny9850]

Of course the argument I made does make perfect sense. I made it ;D

The point is that much like people that had not even seen the final product much less tried it declared Porsche had lost it's marbles in this case again folks are all up in arms about something that they have not personally seen and tried.

And very much like with the 911 example there is no immediate need for anyone to switch or do anything at all. If you don't like the new piece of kit.....easy...ignore it and stick with what you have.

I for one do not add salt to my dinner until I have personally tasted it. And I will apply the same to Flight.

Stefan

[Tom/CalClassic]

I think the reason that you are hearing such complaining in the FS forums is that the MS Flight people misled us about what Flight would be like. Basically, they said "Yes, we have added gameplay elements but it will still have features for the serious simmer". That is clearly NOT true upon initial release.

If they would have said instead "We have created a Windows Live game that may eventually appeal to the serious simmer", then I don't think you would see such vitriol on the FS web forums.

As for MS abandoning the serious simmer so they can make more money - While I understand and partially embrace the European model (i.e. "excess" profits should be used for the good of society and not for the good of the companies), in the US this philosophy is not generally followed. So MS is free to make money as they see fit, with or without us.

And I certainly don't think that MS has some kind of "responsibility" to us simmers, - if we didn't spend enough money buying FS9 and FSX (in their opinion), they are free to look elsewhere. In fact, if they really wanted to be mean, they would have made their recent OS releases incompatible with FS9 (at least), to force people to buy FSX. And now make their next OS incompatible with FSX so you are forced to download Flight and pay for the addons. But I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon, luckily.

[jan]

I think you are totally right Tom....

[ashaman]

Jan 16, 2012 11:17:20 GMT -5 Tom/CalClassic said:

And I certainly don't think that MS has some kind of "responsibility" to us simmers, - if we didn't spend enough money buying FS9 and FSX (in their opinion), they are free to look elsewhere. In fact, if they really wanted to be mean, they would have made their recent OS releases incompatible with FS9 (at least), to force people to buy FSX. And now make their next OS incompatible with FSX so you are forced to download Flight and pay for the addons. But I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon, luckily.

(Thing that I know perfectly, but was NOT calling upon, Tom.)

What I think is that if you sell me a thing, be it a material thing or a service, you should be duty bound to give me assistance over it at least for a while.

More than that, in a free market there should be the option of CHOOSING where and what you can buy.

I know, I know... pecunia non olet and all that jazz, more there over the pond than here, but there MUST be a border over which the brazen become shameless EVEN THERE.

For those who still do not get the implicit, let me put it this way: do you know what is the BEST part of possessing a MONOPOLY (not the board game, mind)?

YOU make the prices, and NO ONE can do jack to stop you, even if said prices are ABSURD. You can choose the kind of assistance on what you sell and... as above, try and guess who can stop you even if you decide ludicrous terms... and on the software there is no law that forces the seller to give a standard warranty time, like for example on hardware, just word it the right way in the EULA and...

You know what they say about absolute power, don't you?

If a free market does not exist, then democracy gets defenestrated too, and I'm not in the business of pleasing wannabe dictators, even in things like software.

By the way, for those who may want to know, this is the cause of my hatred for Apple, and their philistine ways managed to corrupt even M$, who is now striving in deserving my hatred as well. I am NOT a happy camper right now.

Of course, that MY point of view... there may be people out there who'd like NOTHING BETTER than to find themselves in the software equivalent of a concentration camp (just look at those who buy Apple)... who am I to tell them to do any differently, as long they do try to return the favor.



PS
All I had to say, I did say. Not my fault if what I say doesn't synchronize with your worldview. This said, I don't see any need to continue actively participating to this thread anymore. Have a good time and see you on other threads.

[Tom/CalClassic]

I am not aware of any monopoly - there are several other flight simulators available. And as I stated, MS is not preventing people from using FS9 and FSX.

[capflyer]

Jan 16, 2012 11:17:20 GMT -5 Tom/CalClassic said:

I think the reason that you are hearing such complaining in the FS forums is that the MS Flight people misled us about what Flight would be like. Basically, they said "Yes, we have added gameplay elements but it will still have features for the serious simmer". That is clearly NOT true upon initial release.

Sorry Tom, but I can't support your statement that it's "clearly NOT true" as they haven't released it yet. I will guarantee you that the free download won't be the only thing that will be available on the day of release. As such, how do you know that there won't be downloads available that immediately cater to the serious simmer? You don't. Thus, you can't make the statement.

If they would have said instead "We have created a Windows Live game that may eventually appeal to the serious simmer", then I don't think you would see such vitriol on the FS web forums.

Again, as the entire release content and strategy has not been revealed, you cannot claim that they won't honor their initial statements. Additionally, if they don't make good on those statements, they put themselves at risk of a major lawsuit for violation of Truth in Advertising laws, something they know all too well and will do everything to avoid.

[Tom/CalClassic]

Yes, I should have said "in the initial default release" - i.e. the free download.

While I indeed cannot be sure, the only addons mentioned so far by *MS itself* have been scenery packs (starting with the rest of Hawaii, probably at release), and a few more planes (likely the P-51 and Maule). If they had other packs ready to release this spring, I would think that they would have at least mentioned them in general terms. That has not happened, at least with any specificity. Bill Leaming says they may be coming later. We'll just have to wait and see...